EP 251: All About Direct Response Digital Marketing with Dylan Ogline | Ogline Digital

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Stacy sits down with Dylan Ogline, who is the founder of Ogline Digital. The two will be talking all things digital marketing, and Dylan will offer his perspective on direct response advertising, as well as how it leads to business growth.

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Transcripts:

Stacy Jones (00:01):
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). I’m Stacy Jones, the founder of influencer marketing and branded content agency Hollywood Branded. This podcast provides brand marketers a learning platform for topics for us to share their insights and knowledge on topics which make a direct impact on your business today. While it is impossible to be well-versed on every topic and strategy that can improve bottom line results, my goal is to help you avoid making costly mistakes of time, energy, or money, whether you are doing a DIY approach or hiring an expert to help. Let’s begin today’s discussion.

Audio (00:31):
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). Here’s your host, Stacy Jones.

Stacy Jones (00:36):
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). I’m Stacy Jones, and I’m so happy to be here with you all today and want to give a very warm welcome to Dylan Ogline. Dylan is the founder of Ogline Digital and is a leading expert in direct response advertising and business growth. He’s also created a digital agency ownership training program to help teach others how to have more freedom and live a life with purpose and meaning.
Dylan’s training programs are designed to take the guesswork out of building an agency and remove all of the unknowns that stop so many people from starting their own businesses. Today, Dylan is going to be sharing his advice on direct response digital marketing. We’ll learn what works from his perspective, what should be avoided, and how some businesses miss the mark. Dylan, welcome. So happy to have you here today.

Dylan Ogline (01:21):
Thanks for having me, Stacy. Glad to be here.

Stacy Jones (01:24):
Of course. Before we dive into direct response and just digital advertising general and all those good things, can you tell our listeners a little bit more about you? What got you to here today? Because you have an interesting story, because you are a high school dropout I read.

Dylan Ogline (01:40):
Yes, that I am. How did they get here? I started my first business when I was 13, 14. This is back whenever Google AdWords was just starting out. My business was selling cell phones, flipping cell phones on eBay, and then I had a… It wasn’t Shopify. This is pre-Shopify. This is a long time ago, but I was flipping cell phones. I’d buy them from a wholesaler in Europe, ship them to United States and sell them for like a 10, 20% markup, something like that. But this was back in the beginning of Google AdWords. I don’t even think Facebook had started yet.
This is like 2003, 2004, somewhere around there. I’ve started playing around with it, and it just fascinated me because it was this game-changing idea of marketing. And I had read a couple of marketing books at the same time. Did a little bit with my business, and then that business ended up getting shut down because my merchant account provider found out that I was under the age of 18. I think that happened around tax time they found out. This guy’s a little too young for this. They shut me down, and I spent the next 12 years bouncing around between different business ideas, getting absolutely nowhere.
The main thing that I did for income essentially was agency work. I was doing websites, logos, banner designs. Banner designs used to be a huge thing, but there was always this marketing backdrop. Finally in it was like 2016 or so was getting absolutely nowhere, but spoke with a long-term mentor, scrapped all the business projects I was working on, focused on one single service, which was the digital marketing management, and spent the next three years getting really, really good at that and scaling my agency up. And here we are. Did I do that in under like a minute? Do you think?

Stacy Jones (03:49):
It’s pretty close. Yeah, of course.

Dylan Ogline (03:51):
That’s the journey.

Stacy Jones (03:52):
You literally went high school dropout selling phones where you were making money, but you were told you were too young, so you had to stop that, to then trying to find yourself for quite some time before you stumbled upon and decided to sink your teeth into digital advertising and marketing.

Dylan Ogline (04:09):
That’s summarizes 17 years right there. Yeah.

Stacy Jones (04:12):
It’s a quick 17 years, I’m sure.

Dylan Ogline (04:16):
Yes.

Stacy Jones (04:18):
What is it that you love about digital advertising? Besides the fact that you’re like, “This is it. I did it, and it centered me. I have a business and it’s going strong. We consistently hit seven figures every year, which is phenomenal.” You’ve worked really hard to be able to get there and do that. But why do you love digital marketing much?

Dylan Ogline (04:39):
Once I got really good at it, the part that I probably enjoyed the most was if you’re doing it right, you’re not… The big way, it’s different from traditional media, like a TV ad or something like that, where you’re almost trying to convince somebody to use your product or service. If you’re doing Facebook, Google, YouTube Ads, et cetera, if you’re doing them right, you’re introducing your product or service to people who didn’t even know that they wanted it.
I talked about this before, if you’re getting comments on your Facebook Ads like, “I’m so glad I found this product or service,” whatever, that’s when you know you’re getting it right. Now that I’ve gotten really good, I enjoy that so much, being able to introduce products and services to people that didn’t even know that they wanted them. I would say before that what I liked about it so much was it gave a business the ability to purchase growth.
If you had your Facebook Ads, if you had your Google Ads, if you had all those things dialed in and figured out, growing wasn’t a question. It was just increase your ad spend, so then you could manage other parts of your business and just scale things up. That’s a game changer for many digital businesses. Even brick and mortar businesses, it’s an absolute game changer.

Stacy Jones (06:11):
Do you think that still holds true today with all the changes going on with Facebook and with cookies and Google and all the massive marketplace shifts that are happening right now, do you think dialing in a new digital is still the number one way to drive your growth?

Dylan Ogline (06:30):
Unquestionably. More so every single day.

Stacy Jones (06:36):
What are some of the impacts that you’ve seen lately with changes in laws?

Dylan Ogline (06:39):
Changes in laws, did you say?

Stacy Jones (06:41):
Laws or restrictions or you know how Apple was changing the landscape, Google’s changing the landscape. They’re not allowing… Again, cookies being one of the biggest issues, being able to laser in on your demographic and have so much insight. Now they’re pulling back a lot of the detail and data. Do you think that’s impacting people?

Dylan Ogline (07:01):
Is it impacting people? Unquestionably. For us, the way I do marketing. I have built my agency in such a way that those things almost don’t matter. It’s built into the processes, the systems, and the way we do things that things are always going to change. I’ve heard people… It was iOS 14 or whatever, the big Apple update. I think that’s what it was. People were panicking. They’re like, “Facebook Ads aren’t going to work anymore.” I fundamentally believe that will changes happen? Will targeting changes happen? Will Facebook change the way that you input ads or whatever?
All those things, they’re different now than what they were a year ago, and they will continue to change and change and change. But the fundamental law remains that these companies are incentivized for you to succeed. Facebook’s not going to make money if its advertisers aren’t making money. Google is not going to make money. They’re going to run out of money if people aren’t making money by advertising on their platforms. You as the advertiser or as the agency might need to change the way that you do things.
But it’s just like, if you throw up an ad on Facebook, it’s going to reach fatigue and you’ve got to create a new ad. You’ve got to come up with new copy. It’s just a change you got to make. And hat’s my philosophy on marketing and I apply that to my agency. When Apple changes things, it’s another change we’ve got to deal with. But the baseline still is, is that these companies are incentivized to see you succeed and to see you grow and to see you make money off of advertising on their platforms. As long as that is still there, digital marketing is definitely the way to go.

Stacy Jones (08:52):
Yeah, I fully agree with you. I think it’s interesting how many people are heading to the hills and screaming from the tops of the mountain tops that life is over as we know it as digital advertisers, when there’s no way that Facebook and Apple and Google are cutting off their noses to spite their own faces on this.

Dylan Ogline (09:10):
Yeah. I would argue one of the thing is even if the laws change, like the federal government gets involved in these things, Facebook’s going to figure it out. Unless Facebook shuts down, Facebook advertising is still going to work. Unless Google shuts down, Google Ads are still going to work. The laws might change. There might be some law that YouTube Ads are limited to 15 seconds. That would be stupid, but it might happen. And if it happens, it’s like we’ll just have to deal with it. YouTube Advertising is still going to work.
Facebook might make a change where you can no longer have a picture with your ad. It can only be texts. That would be really stupid. But if it did, Facebook Advertising is still going to work. You just got to learn how to deal with that. Things are always going to change and you have to be prepared for that. I’m not running for the hills. That’s for sure. Things are better than ever if you ask me.

Stacy Jones (10:08):
Besides change, what are some of the things going on in marketing right now in the digital space that are impacting advertisers that brands need to be aware of?

Dylan Ogline (10:25):
This is a good one. I view the change… I know you said besides changes, but I think this is important. I view the changes that are happening, especially with targeting, like Facebook targeting is getting less specific that we can do on our end, right? Facebook is still doing the targeting on the backend, but it’s not like Mark Zuckerberg is sitting back there like, “Hmm, I’m going to show this ad to white males between this and this age who have a college education,” or something like that. That’s not what’s happening.
I think all of these platforms are moving more towards relying on the AI and the algorithms to make their advertisers better. You might not have as much control, but the changes that are happening, it’s behind the curtain. We might not see what’s going on with the targeting and things like that. Facebook is doing it. AdWords is a little different, but these platforms are now taking the targeting and putting the control in their hands and to the hands of the algorithm. And that’s a very good thing for marketers. Did that answer your question in a roundabout way even though I talked about change?

Stacy Jones (11:48):
Yeah, it does. What are some of the areas when you’re working with a brand and they’re coming on board with your agency that you focus on first? How do you figure out how to kick off and dial in and drill in on getting them started with you all on the path that you have planned?

Dylan Ogline (12:10):
Most of the time, a lot of brands are making their marketing too complicated. I’m really big into just simplifying things. We deal with a lot of brick and mortar businesses, a lot of blue collar businesses. We’re moving now more towards into like e-commerce and things like that. But especially businesses like that, they’re used to say doing a billboard ad and listing all their services on the billboard ad. Whereas my philosophy is like put up a billboard ad with one word on it. That’s the dream right there, if you could get to that level of marketing.
Whereas they’re used to like just cramming as much information into it as possible. Really simplifying things, getting it down into… Every business is different, but just trying to get it down into the absolute simplest process we could. The dream would be a Facebook Ad with one word, and that word is the link to a landing page where the person puts in their email. The cleaner that landing page could be, the cleaner the ad could be, the less products and services we’re advertising, the more data we can get with that, the better. Just keep things simple.

Stacy Jones (13:39):
Simplicity is the goal here.

Dylan Ogline (13:41):
Absolutely. That’s something I really hammer down with the clients we work with.

Stacy Jones (13:45):
You like lots of white space around things.

Dylan Ogline (13:49):
Yeah. Yeah. If we can get Apple level marketing where it’s just like the phone in a white void, like hell yeah! That’s what I want.

Stacy Jones (14:00):
And then you can do another simplistic campaign for another product that you’re doing and you could do another one for another, so that you’re actually dialing in and using all the AI and the targeting and your retargeting campaigns that you can do it by service or product versus the coal kitchen sink at one time.

Dylan Ogline (14:24):
Absolutely. Yeah. The more dialed in we can get it and then… If you’re Apple, you would have a different view landing page for each product. You wouldn’t throw all your products at one image.

Stacy Jones (14:39):
Right.

Dylan Ogline (14:39):
But most businesses are just so used to that, used to that old marketing thought. And then what happens is, is you allow Facebook as an example to work its magic and figure out what people are most interested in that product in a blank void and the better… Because you’re not going to be able to figure that out. You think you’re really smart out there as an agency owner, as an example. You think you know what the target audience is, but you know nothing compared to what Facebook does.

Stacy Jones (15:13):
Right.

Dylan Ogline (15:14):
If you can let the algorithm work its magic, it’ll blow any results that you could possibly get. The wind blows it away.

Stacy Jones (15:22):
Well, I figured it doesn’t just look at this typical targeting that we do. It actually can take in your psychographics and all those other things that marketers think of as being important, but then they still manage to dial back and be like, “Psychographics, I don’t know. Nope. It’s definitely 25 to 35. That’s my audience. That’s it. Nope. 25 to 35 year olds. It’s just them.”

Dylan Ogline (15:44):
Which I think where that comes from is when… You probably go back… I mean, this is before my time. You go back 30, 40 years ago with marketing and the idea of like, we can target our marketing to just males or just this age bracket. That was game changing in the marketing industry. But now we’re kind of going the other way, where instead of getting really, really dialed in with your targeting, you get very broad with your targeting and then let a computer, which can figure it out way better than you can, let that do the work that’s.
I think that’s definitely been happening for say five or six years, but now it just keeps getting better and better every day.

Stacy Jones (16:34):
What are the biggest mistakes besides too many cluttered words, not enough area to breathe that you see brands making?

Dylan Ogline (16:48):
Wanting to try too many different things. Most of the time when we’re working with… I don’t work with a lot of big brands. I’m typically working with smaller businesses and then scaling things up with them and helping their businesses grow. I don’t know if this is necessarily an issue with bigger brands, but with the smaller businesses, say less than a million a year in revenue, a lot of them are like, “We need to try everything. We need to do be doing Google and Facebook and YouTube. I’ve heard a lot about this TikTok and Snapchat Ads. We need to be doing that. I want banner ads everywhere.
They’re just trying to do way too many things. They’re splitting their budget around, but they never really getting good at one thing. I like to really say that simplicity approach really scale clients back and being like, “Maybe we will get to Facebook and Google and YouTube and all these different things, but let’s get really good at one single thing.” That’s a big mistake. Did that answer your question?

Stacy Jones (18:05):
It does. I can’t tell you how many people are like, “TikTok. TikTok. We have to do TikTok now.” I’m like, “Well, what are you doing for general social media that you’re doing in other things? Who’s your demographic.” “I don’t know. Everyone’s talking about TikTok. We really shouldn’t be doing TikTok right now.”

Dylan Ogline (18:21):
It’s the shiny object syndrome. It’s always chasing the newest things. I think it’s almost like chasing Bitcoin or something like that, where people… They’ll hear about somebody who’s getting incredible results on TikTok or Snap. I don’t even know. Can you do TikTok advertising? I don’t even know.

Stacy Jones (18:42):
You can. You can. I just did a whole advertising class with them. Yes. They actually have some training that’s pretty good.

Dylan Ogline (18:48):
It’s just like Snapchat. People will hear about the incredible results a company is getting, and I’m like, well, that person probably is getting incredible results, but they probably just threw something up and just so happened to hit a home run their first at bat. That doesn’t prove that that marketing channel works, and that platform probably doesn’t have really good tools yet. Whereas Facebook and Google, these things are tried and true. We know they work. You could be okay at Facebook Ads and still get incredible returns.
You have to hit the home run your first at bat on say TikTok or whatever because it’s not tried and true. Nobody really knows what they’re doing yet. Five years from now, talk to me about TikTok Ads, then I might be interested if it’s still around. But right now, I like to keep it to the simple tried and true methods.

Stacy Jones (19:52):
And not feeling like your clients are missing out if they’re not doing it.

Dylan Ogline (19:56):
Yeah, absolutely.

Stacy Jones (20:00):
I was doing your introduction. I touched on direct response. I think a lot of people think that anything in digital, and our agency does influencer marketing, so anything in influencer marketing as well results in immediate sales. Immediate. Like no matter what you put it out there, you are going to get a sale.
What you do with digital advertising is a little bit more dialed into potentially that result than what I do with influencer marketing, which is more of a brand awareness, where you’re not going to necessarily yield 100% sales right away, or any sales right away, because you are not a magic hair elixir or diet tea, something that people are racing to and they have to have because it’s so life-changing. But you’re more so using influencers to replace your traditional ads and print magazines.
Someone’s leafing through a magazine seeing L’Oreal here and L’Oreal and L’Oreal here and you’re finally like, “Oh, I’d like to actually try that lipstick. That looks cool.” That’s how influencer marketing is working. But with digital and direct response, you can dial in a little bit more, right?

Dylan Ogline (21:06):
Absolutely, yeah. You’re talking about brand awareness.

Stacy Jones (21:11):
Well, I do brand awareness. I think you do actual…

Dylan Ogline (21:14):
Yeah. For us, we do direct response. Our goal is, it depends on each client, but the person sees the ad, they click it, and they’re taken to a landing page or something like that, and they’re taking a direct action. It might be a actual purchase. You’re clicking to the next page and entering your credit card information to buy. Or it might be say a plumbing and heating company where the person is putting in their information for somebody to reach out and give them a quote or something like that. It’s a direct actual response. That’s just my area of expertise.
If you’re talking about brand awareness and things like that, that’s totally fine. That’s a social ROI, which can pay dividends long-term. It’s very smart, especially for big brands. If you’re talking about L’Oreal or Nike or Coke, that’s all Coke does is the big brand awareness campaigns. For small businesses though, I’m all about the direct response. Getting a direct purchase or request for more information or something like that.

Stacy Jones (22:25):
A brand comes onboard. It’s a hand sanitizer, right? There’s lots of hand sanitizers. But this one, this is a special, super fantastic, wonderful life-changing hand sanitizer. It smells great. It feels great. Everyone loves the hand sanitizer. What would your first steps be for them to start a campaign?

Dylan Ogline (22:47):
How much is their product?

Stacy Jones (22:49):
Their product is let’s just say it’s like $15 a bottle.

Dylan Ogline (22:55):
15 bucks a bottle. What’s their profit margin?

Stacy Jones (22:58):
Profit margin is going to be probably 60 to 70% minimum.

Dylan Ogline (23:05):
60 to 70%. I wouldn’t take them on as a client. And that’s just because that’s outside of my area of expertise. For direct response… Me, I focus on Facebook, Google, and YouTube, and typically those platforms are best for typically high profit margin, at least typically over… The bare minimum $100 purchase. If you’re not getting $100 purchase, it’s tough to make a profit on say Facebook Ads or something like that. If I had to take on that client, I would try to… Again, this is outside of my wheelhouse, but I would be thinking like, what about Amazon or something like that?
This is outside of my wheelhouse. Can we do Amazon advertising? Can we push up your product listing there? How do we drive more purchases there? I would probably be focused more on something like that.

Stacy Jones (24:08):
And then why do you say if something’s not going to sell for over $100 it’s harder to get sales on digital platforms? From your experience. And I’m not debating with you. I’m just wondering for insight.

Dylan Ogline (24:22):
Cost. You need to get… If you’re selling $1,000 product with a 90% profit margin, you can mess up a lot of stuff and still be very profitable on Facebook. If you’re selling a $15 product with a 60% product margin, you need to be really, really good to me say Facebook Ads work. I would take a look at Google Ads and see what… I don’t think most people will be searching hand sanitizer.

Stacy Jones (24:58):
They were last year.

Dylan Ogline (25:01):
Oh yeah, last year that was… Last year that was a very easy market.

Stacy Jones (25:06):
The reason why we have so many hand sanitizers now is because of last year.

Dylan Ogline (25:10):
But it comes down to just the amount of things that you can mess up. You can be just okay at Facebook Ads. And again, if you have a $1,000 product at a 90% profit margin, you can be just okay at it and you’re still going to do really, really good at Facebook ads. Where when you get into a low profit margin or just a low dollar amount product, it becomes really, really difficult, and You need to get absolutely everything dialed in. I would talk to the hand sanitizer company. I’d be like, “What are your thoughts on like a subscription model or something like that?” That’s a thought I just had.

Stacy Jones (25:51):
Okay. Look, I’m looking in my house just seeing what I have. I happen to have a jar of hand sanitizers. Let me just use that for the example right there. Perfect. And then what about services? Are service businesses different with how they’re approaching, or is it exactly the same way as a product business when you were working with them on direct response and digital advertising?

Dylan Ogline (26:14):
Pretty much the same. Yeah. I don’t think there’s much different of… I don’t take much of a different approach when it comes to services versus products. I don’t think I do off the top of my head. No.

Stacy Jones (26:30):
And then what about classes with this whole advent especially last year with COVID, it was already going this way. Everyone is now coaching and teaching and has classes and look at this package. Is that different?

Dylan Ogline (26:46):
One thing I would add there because I’ve worked with a couple of info product businesses on their marketing, because there’s so many people doing coaching and whatnot is to get very niche down. I think it’s fantastic what is happening with online education, where now there’s courses on everything, like everything under the sun. But if you have a course on how to start an e-commerce business, that’s very broad. But if you have a course on, one of the more successful people I know of in that industry, how to start an accounting and bookkeeping business, that’s more niche down.
My advice to anybody who’s doing that is to try to get niche down and try to solve a very specific problem for a very specific industry. This way you stand out by being the one and only and the best in that market. That would be my suggestion to them.

Stacy Jones (28:08):
Is that really any different than if you’re a product with that advice?

Dylan Ogline (28:14):
No, but I think a lot of people miss that for some reason. I don’t know why. I don’t have an answer as to why that is. You see people who are like, “I’m a business coach, or I’m a business consultant.” I’m like, yeah, and you and like a million other dudes. You need to get more… If you specifically only help a certain type of law firms or something, you only help… I don’t know a lot about law firms.
But the more specific you can get and you only help them grow their practice or something, and that’s just an idea I randomly had, that’s the direction you want to go is getting very specific on the solution that you provide.

Stacy Jones (28:56):
Well, that’s what you did for yourself, right? You’re going over. You’re doing things all over the place, and then your mentor said you need to dial in and you need to focus with your digital marketing services and just focus on what you’re doing within a specific area.

Dylan Ogline (29:11):
Absolutely, yeah. It was beyond. I did logos and websites and this and that. You needed a PDF made? I could get it done. I was your guy for that. I wasn’t known for anything. I wasn’t known as really good at anything. On top of that, I had like nine other businesses I was running, and I was going in so many different directions, so I never really got good one particular thing. And then I narrowed down just on one of those businesses and just one service within that business.

Stacy Jones (29:51):
That makes sense. And then what are other things that brand managers should be aware of when they’re approaching digital marketing, whether for the first time or after decades of experience of working within the field?

Dylan Ogline (30:07):
What are the things that they should be aware of?

Stacy Jones (30:09):
Aware of, concerned of, cautious of, or seize the bull by the horn and run with because it’s the best thing ever under the sun.

Dylan Ogline (30:20):
I would go with the latter there of it is… If you’re looking to grow, I am just absolutely convinced, if you’re looking to grow your business, figuring out digital marketing, Facebook, Google, YouTube. Don’t waste your time on Snapchat just yet. If you can figure those things out, it makes so many other things in your business so much easier. You have the ability to now buy growth. You’re not wondering, how am I going to scale the business up? And once you figure it out, the ability to scale up is… You’re not talking 20% growth this year. You’re talking like 20% growth every month or 100% growth every month.
What will limit you… So many businesses… You go back 10 to 15 years ago, the entire business world, the question was like, how do I get more customers? How do I get more growth? But once you figure this stuff out, the issue with growth becomes, how do I hire more salespeople? How do I scale up my sales team faster, because I have an unlimited amount of leads that I could give them? Then you can shift your focus. Shifting your mindset to just realizing how powerful this stuff can be for your business, I think that’s probably be the advice I would give.

Stacy Jones (31:50):
Well, Dylan, how can our listeners learn more about you? How can they find you?

Dylan Ogline (31:55):
You can find me on the LinkedIns and the Instagrams and the Facebooks @dylanogline. My website is dylanogline.com, and then my agency is oglinedigital.com.

Stacy Jones (32:06):
Okay. And then you also have a book, 6 Steps to a 6-Figure Agency, I believe.

Dylan Ogline (32:13):
Yep. It’s a free book I put out at dylanogline.com/six, all spelled our, S-I-X.

Stacy Jones (32:22):
Perfect. And that’s going to be in the show notes, so it’s going to be easy for people to see. Makes it easy.

Dylan Ogline (32:28):
Yeah, there you go.

Stacy Jones (32:29):
And then if we had some last parting words of advice to our listeners today, what would you leave them with?

Dylan Ogline (32:40):
Don’t run for the hills with changes. I think that’s probably the best thing we talked about was… For those out there who are an agency owner or already doing marketing and whatnot, you need to really shift yourself to being comfortable with these changes. Absolutely nobody has a problem with, “Hey, I have this Facebook Ad. It’s getting fatigued. Results are dropping. I need to put a new Facebook Ad.” Nobody has any problem with that. Nobody’s running for the hills and saying, “Facebook’s not going to work, because I need to put a new ad up.” Nobody does that.
Don’t be scared about Facebook changes or Apple changes or the law changing. Really shift your mindset to be comfortable and realize that this is an extremely powerful tool that we have in front of us. And the only con is that things are constantly ching. But the world’s always changing, so it’s no different than anything else. Just be aware of that and be totally comfortable so that this way when Facebook makes changes or the law changes or Apple puts out iOS 32, it doesn’t really matter. It’s just that we need to figure out this new element of it. I think that would be the main point there.

Stacy Jones (34:03):
I think those are excellent points, and I think it’s also going back to the point that you made earlier in our conversation of keep things simple, right? Also, try not to grab onto everything under the sun thinking that that’s going to take you to your win. Dial in, focus, and actually do target in on your own brand on what you’re trying to get other people to know about.

Dylan Ogline (34:30):
Absolutely.

Stacy Jones (34:30):
Step-by-step versus like scatter gun approach for everywhere.

Dylan Ogline (34:39):
The less clutter, the more simple you can make things with your marketing and whatnot with your branding, all of that stuff. That’s a good direction. If you look at Apple, we talked about Apple briefly, that’s what makes Apple good is that they try to keep everything just ridiculously simple. They’re always trying to take things away to make it more simple and more easy to use, and they do the same thing with their branding in their marketing. So should you.

Stacy Jones (35:12):
Figuring out what’s the powerful thing you want to say versus all the filler words that need to support it.

Dylan Ogline (35:19):
Absolutely.

Stacy Jones (35:22):
Well, Dylan, thank you so much for joining today. Really, really appreciate it. I think you gave some awesome insights for our listeners and appreciate your time.

Dylan Ogline (35:29):
Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Stacy Jones (35:31):
Of course. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in today to Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). I look forward to chatting with you this next week. Have a great time. Bye.

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