In this episode, Stacy sits down with expert podcast host and Pursuing Results CEO Matt Johnson. The two reveal Matt’s extensive experience working in podcasts to discuss scalable marketing systems, turning expertise into business freedom, and the three keys to translating power into focused action.

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Transcripts:

Stacy Jones: 00:00

  • Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. I’m Stacy Jones, the founder of Influencer Marketing and Branded Content Agency Hollywood branded. This podcast provides brand marketers a learning platform for top experts to share their insights and knowledge on topics which make a direct impact on your business today. While it is impossible to be well versed on every topic and strategy that can improve bottom line results, my goal is to help you avoid making costly mistakes of time, energy, or money, whether you are doing a DIY approach or hiring an expert to help. Let’s begin today’s discussion.

Speaker 2: 00:31

  • Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. Here’s your host, Stacy Jones.

Stacy Jones: 00:35

  • Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. I’m Stacy Jones. I’m so happy to be here with you all today. I want to give a very warm welcome to Matt Johnson, who is joining us to discuss his extensive experience working in podcasting. Matt is a marketer, entrepreneur, podcast expert, and musician. As founder of pursuing results, the podcast PR and production agency based in San Diego that runs a worldwide virtual team helping business coaches and agencies break in and dominate their niche through podcasting.

 

  •  Matt currently host niche business podcasts such as UX and Real Estate Uncensored and recently launched the Podcast Pitch Assistant training to help experts get pitched to podcasts consistently by their internal staff. Matt currently host niche Business podcast such as UX and Real Estate Uncensored and recently launched the Podcast Pitch Assistant training to help experts get pitched to podcasts constantly by their internal staff.

 

  • He is a frequent podcast guest and events speaker to audiences around the US, Canada, and Australia. Today, we’re going to talk about how scalable marketing systems work 24/7 to build authority, visibility in relationships, how to turn your expertise into a business machine built for exponential freedom and impact, and three keys to translating power to focus action for exponential results.

 

  • We’ll learn what has worked for Matt’s experience, what maybe could be avoided if you’re doing this yourself and not working with someone else to help you and where other brands are missing the mark. Matt, welcome.

Matt Johnson: 01:51

  • Stacy, I’m really pumped to be here. We’re going to have a really fun conversation so just from the little bit that we were chatting before we kind of hit the record button. I can tell it’s going to be a really fun conversation so I’m excited to be here.

Stacy Jones: 02:01

  • Super happy to have you here and we are going to be talking about a topic that I love. I’m so engrossed in it, I have a passion for it. All of our listeners today, you are benefiting from this passion because you’re listening because if I didn’t have the passion you would not have a podcast to listen to. So-

Matt Johnson: 02:18

  • That is very true.

Stacy Jones: 02:20

  • Matt is the one, he’s a guru at helping all of you all actually create your own podcast and we’re going to get some great insight I think. Matt, can you give us some background on you and how you got where you are today?

Matt Johnson: 02:34

  • Yeah, so the short story is I was working for an agency and had a great relationship there with the CEO and moved into business development, and we started doing webinars or some of the influencers in our space. One of those influencers came to me and said like, “Hey look, we have really great chemistry. We’re doing live webinars and things like that. We’re having a blast, let’s turn this into a podcast.” We didn’t have much more of a plan than that. We were thinking we were going to get into business and things like that as a team, and so that was basically the vague idea was, “Let’s start a show,” because it sounds like it’d be something fun to do. So we did. That ended up being one of the top five podcasts in our space, still is. I still run that and I had a great time.

 

  • What ended up happening though was like, we’re doing a lot of content, right? We ramped up to where we’re doing three episodes a week and then by that time, I was doing like some consulting and had launched a couple of other podcasts and was co hosting those as well. I was on live podcasts like, I don’t know, five to six hours a week. People started asking me like, “How in the world? What’s going on? What is happening here? How are you doing this? This is way too much content. How are you doing this?” I told them about the team that I built behind the scenes that did all the production work so that I didn’t have to, right?

 

  • I taught myself how to do every stage, but then one by one, I got things off of my plate and train somebody to replace me that was better than I am at each of those things. I told them, No,” and they said, “Well, that sounds awesome, but also sounds exhausting. So can we just like rent your team?” At first, we did that and that worked for a while, and then eventually we had to actually get serious about it and turn it into a real agency. We got focused, and we tried a whole bunch of stuff to the point where we figured out, “Okay, this is what actually works.” We started producing weekly podcasts for business coaches, consultants, and the agencies who served them.

 

  • We went from essentially marketing consulting, doing podcasty things for a lot of different types of people in different situations and really just kept relentlessly getting more and more laser focus to the point where we just sell one thing to pretty much one type of person.

Stacy Jones: 04:34

  • That’s great. You figured out your niche very well.

Matt Johnson: 04:37

  • Yeah. Took a while. But yeah, we got there.

Stacy Jones: 04:41

  • It sounds to other people that life is so complicated if you’re going to do a podcast, right?

Matt Johnson: 04:47

  • Yeah.

Stacy Jones: 04:48

  • There’s a lot of spinning wheels there, and it depends, obviously, if you’re doing something live or if you’re doing something that’s recorded and then you’re going to have an editing team go into that. But beyond all that, I mean, there’s a booking guests, there’s actually creating what the podcast structure is, there is figuring out how to market it. It’s actually engaging with your guests and making sure that they have one of the most powerful tools they’re sharing their podcast after you’re on it. I mean, there’s dozens and dozens of things. Can you share what that all looks like and what someone needs to know before they’re even considering starting a podcast?

Matt Johnson: 05:26

  • Yeah. I think the best advice I can give to somebody who’s getting overwhelmed by it is to not think about the technical end so much and think about more of the audience and what they want and what’s the quickest way to reach them. I’ll give an example. I work with an agency owner who came to me and said, “Hey, look man, I’m running this live networking call each week on Zoom, where I invite some influencer into my space and then I invite a bunch of my friends and connections in Linkedin people to it live.” We interview the guy for 20 minutes, and then everybody gets to have an open Q&A session with them afterwards. I’m like, “Well, this is phenomenal. We don’t need to change a thing. Let’s just turn it into a podcast.”

 

  • That’s one of the best advice I can give to anybody else is just start with what you can do and worry about the rest of it later. It doesn’t have to be perfect. You can literally start doing a Zoom call behind the scenes and invite people to attend live with you and just jump on the zoom session with you and invite somebody to have a conversation with them and open up for questions afterwards. I mean, that’s super, super simple. That’s how he started. He did that for a year before he came to me and said, “Okay, now I need help systematizing, making it professional, getting stuff to the guests as they can share their episode, like all of that stuff.”

 

  • But in the time that he was doing it by himself, he tested the market, he tested the concept for the show, he tested the audience to make sure it was something that they wanted, and he got a feel for just himself, whether it was something he enjoyed doing because the worst thing you can do is commit to a podcast weekly and then find out, “Oh crap, I don’t enjoy this at all. I would rather just be interviewed. Can I just be interviewed more?

 

  • I meet people occasionally that have that realization. They commit to doing a podcast and then they get into it and they’re like, “Honestly, I would really rather just show up and have somebody ask me questions. Can we just do that?” Experiment with something really simple first because you can just step up the professionalism kind of incrementally along the way. It doesn’t have to be perfect right out of the gate.

Stacy Jones: 07:21

  • Okay. I know I love podcasting because I really like talking to other people and learning and so I feel I have this super secret thing locked in where I get to talk to someone who is an expert in whatever they’re doing that I’ve chosen to speak to them because I’m interested in it. And I-

Matt Johnson: 07:41

  • Who is that for you? Who’s the … because I know I can think of probably one person that sticks out for me that I got a chance to interview. Who is that person for you they’re like, “Oh my God, I got them on my podcast.”

Stacy Jones: 07:51

  • It’s not even that, honestly. It’s everyone, honestly. It’s you. It’s everyone that I speak with, it’s on topics and people who … what I figured out is my biggest driver is as an entrepreneur, I really like being around other entrepreneurs and other people who are super focused in getting their game, just on and who have dialed in on finding whatever they’re cool thing is and they have a passion for it, and they have a drive for it, and they have cool knowledge to share about it. Whatever they’re doing, it’s going to apply to something that would be helpful to myself or my clients. That’s what I get my drive out of. It’s not even, “Oh, I have this hero, I can’t believe I got them on. Oh, this is fantastic.”

 

  • It’s the conversation. I actually get energy from talking to my guests and I get recharged and I remember what sometimes my own passion for having an agency is because these are people I want to connect with and actually get almost revitalized from their own energy and passions that they have.

Matt Johnson: 09:04

  • Yeah. I have noticed the same thing. I can wake up in the morning and go, “Oh man, I’ve got like back to back, to back, to back, to back, to back, to back, to back.” But then if there’s a couple of podcasts interviews in there, I know that it’s going to give me that boost of energy just because the conversation being so enjoyable and fantastic, that it makes a huge difference in my day to know that some of those things are on the calendar where I’m going to connect with somebody really awesome that can … and a lot of things can come from it. But at the very least, I know the conversation is going to be energizing and fun.

Stacy Jones: 09:35

  • Yeah. That’s what I like about it. We were talking a little bit about this before we jumped on about establishing yourself as a micro influencer and that’s the whole power of podcasting. You share a little bit more about that topic and why that is so important.

Matt Johnson: 09:53

  • Yeah. When we’re talking, we’re both kind of in our own different ways, like really involved in influencer marketing. That’s one of the things that I’ve learned about podcasting is because I deal exclusively in dialogue shows. I wouldn’t call them interview shows because we don’t do really any of those, but there’s essentially two people hopping on and having a genuine, authentic conversation about a topic. What I found was happening not only with my podcast first but then with the ones that we produced for other people was that it was introducing this kind of relationship and networking aspect that I didn’t really expect.

 

  • In addition to all the other benefits of a podcast like building authority and visibility and having things go out consistently on social media and building a tribe of people who agree with you and all that stuff and it’s all awesome. Even if all that stuff didn’t happen, what I found is that podcasting was so incredibly valuable just from the building the relationships and being seen as an influencer in my own right. By having these authentic conversations with other influential people where we’re riffing on a topic together and they’re going, “Oh man, that’s really good. What about this? And what about this?”

 

  • The nature of the conversation was giving me credibility just by having them on my show and having those types of high level kind of conversations. If you’re in the business world, and you’re looking for that next step, to me, that next step is you can be very good at what you do and you can get behind the scenes referrals and word of mouth, and that’s the foundation of everything and we can’t ever overlook that. We have to have that.

 

  • But once we have that laid down, then what’s that next level? To me, that next level is to get micro famous in our space. Right now, the quickest, fastest, easiest way to do that is to just get interviewed on every podcast you can, so that you’re seen and known for that one thing and get micro famous for that one thing that you talk about all the time. I’ve seen it with my own clients because in addition to running their show, we don’t really offer this as a service, but we started booking them on other podcasts and figured out that system. Now, I do it for myself and we do it for clients to an extent just as a value add, and then I created a whole training around that to systematize that process because I just saw it.

 

  • It was one of those things where I didn’t think of anything about it. I didn’t notice it at first, but once I noticed it, I’m like, “Okay, now I’ve got to double down on this,” because this is clearly I’m on. I stumbled onto something that I wasn’t smart enough to recognize right out of the gate, but I’m not going to be done for much longer. I’m going to jump on this.

Stacy Jones: 12:24

  • Now and I talk to a lot of agency owners and I had kind of preempted this and jumped in right from the bat about it. It’s daunting, the idea of starting a podcast and doing something on a regular basis and committing to something along those lines. But at the benefits of it obviously can be just crazy good because unbelievably fantastic across the board. How do you suggest that someone gets started?

 

  •   You mentioned the fact that you have a new system and you do it for yourself and you don’t offer it to clients but you do it for some clients right now for booking them. What does someone need to know between the difference of booking themselves on other people’s podcasts versus really creating your own podcast?

Matt Johnson: 13:19

  • That’s the thing and that’s part of why I mentioned that is because that is where I recommend everyone start. If you’re literally starting from scratch, don’t start your own podcast. First, I recommend being a guest and do 20 or 30 podcasts as a guest first. Get a sense of what it’s like, get interviewed, and get known for your topic, and then look at launching a podcast because being a guest is something you can scale up and down, right? As the business gets busier or your travel schedule picks up, you can scale back on how often you’re interviewed and you’re not locked into any sort of rhythm.

 

  • We can see it with big influencers in my space, the Gary Vaynerchuck’s of the world. They’ll go on spurts where they’re just on it. They’re everywhere. They’re on every podcast they can get their hands on because they’re selling a book and then they’ll go dark, and they’ll just do their own thing for a while. Then they’ll go back, and they’ll be a guest again. You can do the same thing for yourself, but that’s why I recommend that that’s the best place to start is just to reach out and start making connections with other podcasts’ hosts and get familiar with it from that end up just being a guest where all the focus and on the all the spotlight is on you because it’s a lot easier to be in that position than it is to be the interviewer right out of the gate.

 

  • I can tell you from experience, because I was laughing about this with my mentor the other day. I was hanging out with him at his office in downtown San Diego and he reminded me that he’s like, “You realize that right over there? I remember several years ago you were freaking out because you’re hosting your first live Webinar.” Because I didn’t do that. I didn’t. I wasn’t a guest on anything else. I started out by hosting the show, and I don’t remember that, and I can tell you that phase pass pretty quickly.

 

  • I was only two or three months and I was comfortable, and I think that’s what happens to most people. I can tell you from experience, it’s the tougher way to go. But even with that, most hesitation that you feel right now will go away in two or three months of just doing it. If you do end up starting a podcast, you’re going to feel uncomfortable. Just understand that going in, it’s just not going to feel comfortable right away, but I think that passes pretty quickly.

Stacy Jones: 15:17

  • Until technical difficulties interrupt and then you get [inaudible 00:15:21].

Matt Johnson: 15:23

  • Yes. As they say, from working with that agency, I spent a year working with people to record videos for their blogs and stuff like that. I’ve encountered every technical difficulty known to the human race, I think in trying to do that. I may have had an advantage there, encountered some of that stuff before I ever got into podcasting, so I knew how to deal with some of that stuff, and still make things smooth, and make the guests feel comfortable. But yeah, the only way to get through that stuff is just repetition. You just did, it comes up and you deal with it. As long as you’re professional about it, everybody has patience. You’d be surprised. People are very, very nice.

Stacy Jones: 16:00

  • And a little bit of a sense of humor.

Matt Johnson: 16:02

  • Yes, that helps.

Stacy Jones: 16:04

  • You had created the Podcast Pitch Assistant Training and that’s to help people actually get pitched to podcasts by, and this is the key thing, their internal staff, by someone else.

Matt Johnson: 16:16

  • Oh my God, yes.

Stacy Jones: 16:16

  • They’re not sitting there dialing for dollars and pitching themselves all over the place and feeling overwhelmed from that. Can we talk a little bit more about the magic essence of that?

Matt Johnson: 16:28

  • Yeah. It all came from me having the problem right the same way my agency started, which is I determined like, “Hey, I need to step out and become a micro influencer in my own,” especially outside of the original podcasts that I built, which is like a really niche space. I looked at the landscape and I said, “Well, clearly this is what I need to do. I need to be interviewed on more podcasts.” I just set the goal. “Okay, well I’m going to reach out to you. I’m going to research and identify one podcasts a day and send off an email. Sounds relatively easy. I’m like estimated time, 20 minutes. I can do that 20 minutes a day, no big deal.”

 

  • Of course, I look up four weeks later and guess what? Nothing’s been done because I’m trying to run a business here, and I think that’s where most of us are finding ourselves. I knew a lot of clients that were in the same position. I had clients reaching out to me and saying like, “Hey, I need to be on every podcast known to man in our space, how do I do that?” I knew that other people were having the same issue I was, which is the conventional answer as reach out yourself and just get booked. It just was not working.

 

  • Fortunately, I have a staff and I know how to train and hire people just from my agency, so I said, “Okay. Well, how do I build a system where I don’t have to do any of the reach out the research, the emails or the scheduling and I can just show up and be interviewed and have these amazing conversations?” I took a whole bunch of time, figured that out, build the system, train my people on it. It worked. I started it to my clients. It worked and just kind of that went through that progression and then turn that into … One of my clients basically said, “Okay. You need to like sell this. I have people in my group coaching program that I want them to get this and they can’t buy it from you. So get your act together and go package this up and let’s make this into something that people can buy because they need it.”

 

  • It all just came from scratching my own niche. The secret to all this stuff is that it has to be a system that’s relatively easy to follow, something that a 12 to $15 an hour person in the states or overseas, it has to be a template templated, right? I had to build all the email templates and figure out, “Okay, what works and what doesn’t?” Which we knew from experience, but it never really like put down into a template. We had to figure all that stuff out. Then we had to lay out the whole scheduling process, right? How do you follow up?

 

  • Then how do you teach someone who isn’t a hard charging type A entrepreneur? How do you teach someone how to communicate with those people so this stuff actually gets done because you know how it is. You get a pitch email that’s too long and you’re like, “Yeah, I’ll get to it later,” and you never get to it, right? We had to figure all that stuff out. Anyway, all that went into the training. It was a whole bunch of hours. It took a whole bunch of time, but we figured it out. It’s working for me and it’s working for other people, we’re getting great results because it’s not putting it on the influencer themselves to be the one reaching out. As long as you’ve got someone who’s smart, can think on their feet, and has two to three hours a week to do it for you, you’re all good.

Stacy Jones: 19:18

  • Okay. That’s great. This is something that you did finally get packaged together and people can find it.

Matt Johnson: 19:25

  • They can find it. Yes. They go to my website pursuingresults.com/training. That’s the easy way to get into that.

Stacy Jones: 19:33

  • Perfect. You can plug that again a little bit later and say in case someone didn’t have a pen to write that down right now, but that’s great. I think that is a really cool, awesome option for people because it’s hard trying to figure out who to reach out and it’s not always easy to find the right people to talk to. It’s not that there’s this giant podcast directory, there’s a few, but it’s not really an organized-

Matt Johnson: 19:57

  • [crosstalk 00:19:57] your own niche. Even if you find a directory of, it’s not like … It takes some just human being sitting down with the system and working it out. I was talking to a client about this the other day because he hired someone internally. They haven’t been through my training yet. We’re going to get that knocked out, but he was just having them kind of reach out and they were coming back and the assistant was telling him, “Yeah, there’s just not that many podcasts.” I’m like, “I’m in the space. I know there’s at least 50.” We ended it like, “We need to retrain your assistant.”

 

  • You just have to recognize that if there are plenty, the podcast market is exploding I think at last count. I don’t know if you’ve heard this stat, but it’s something like, there’s 500,000 podcasts out there. Around half of them are less than six months old, which means they’re not in the directories. You know what I’m saying? You just have to literally go out and kind of know where to comb the Internet for them because there’s all kinds of shows where you’d probably love to be interviewed, and the host of that podcast is someone that you want to be in relationship with and it’s not easy. You may not just be aware of their show yet because it just launched in the last six months.

 

  • I think there’s a lot of that going on. One of the things we figured out from running the agency, where we produce people’s podcasts is that one of the most valuable things we could do is connect them with other podcast host and get them connected on each other shows and start building this kind of informal referral network where they all know each other and all the micro influencers and all the micro famous people on a space. We want to get them to know each other and we want to get them referring each other and having them all on each other’s podcasts because then that like a rising tide lifts all boats.

 

  • It ends up turning into business relationships, affiliate relationships, strategic referral relationships, whether they’re formal, informal, just like all kinds of good things came from just connecting influencers to each other. That’s kind of why we were talking about just, how do you become an influencer because once you are, even if you don’t consider yourself like at the top of the heap, once you’re an influencer in your space, it’s a lot easier to reach out and start building those relationships that will lift you along with them.

Stacy Jones: 22:02

  • Sure. I mean, this is all about content and creating branded content about yourself. A lot of people are surprised by how much our agency will take content that we have created, whether that’s a blog or a podcast and we’ll repurpose that thing. We will repurpose, and we will repurpose, and we will have a sales call with new client. It will be on a topic that we spoke about on a podcast. Now, all of a sudden, we have a direct voice and we can share a link and say, “I went into more detail on this.” All you’re doing is you’re building your voice and your authority levels to an exponential hike that never was available before for business owners at all.

Matt Johnson: 22:45

  • No, that’s what’s cool about it is this stuff just did not exist. In fact, I was just telling somebody the other day we were sitting out and he asked me kind of what I did and I share with them a little bit about what I did and he’s like, “How in the world did you get into that?” I’m like, “If you’d have told me 10 years ago when I was going to be doing, I wouldn’t even know how to get into it either.” All this stuff didn’t exist 10 years ago, which is pretty awesome. These opportunities just were not there. I mean, if you weren’t … Unless you built a big Facebook following maybe or you built a big YouTube channel that was about all that you had open to you.

 

  • Podcasting didn’t really exist. There wasn’t really a network of other people podcasting. Maybe there was one show in each space and nobody listened to it. A lot has changed just in the last four or five years that I’ve been in this game and I’m looking forward to seeing where to go, but it’s only going to go further down this track. I mean, to me I firmly believe because I get this question a lot, “Well, what happens if everybody has a podcast?” My answer is good, right? It’s like asking what if everybody has a blog? It’s  getting to the point where that’s now table stakes.

 

  • It’s just the entrance point of the game. Everybody’s going to have a show and it’s going to be available on a bunch of different platforms. The question is just, who’s got the better show? Now it’s a race. It’s not necessarily a race to start your own podcast per se, it’s just a race to have your own show, and then you just want to make the best possible show that appeals to the people that you want to eventually do business with. If you do that, if you’ve solved 90% of your problems and then whether it explodes in growth from there, great. If it stays consistent, that’s great too.

 

  •   I mean, you’d be surprised the number of podcasts that we produce that generate multiples different six figure income streams for their hosts where they don’t have huge downloads. They’re not top 10 in any category. You would never … If you’re not in their niche, you don’t know that those podcasts even exist. If anybody’s listening and they’re like, “Well, I’m going to start a podcast and we’re going to hit the top 10.” First of all, no, probably not. But the good news is you don’t have to, just get started.

 

  • If you choose your niche right, it’ll solve all those business problems without ever having to get really big or popular.

Stacy Jones: 24:58

  • That’s the whole thing. I mean, it doesn’t really matter how many listeners you have. If you have the right on target listeners, you are in potential purchasing mode from you. I mean, you’ve gotten rid of all the crap that’s basically out there, that’s filling up the area, that is completely muddying the waters. You’re drilling down with a podcast to people who actually truly are interested and who are going to give you their minutes, they’re very precious minutes to listen.

Matt Johnson: 25:28

  • Well, yeah, and I would imagine you guys probably deal with this in your agency. The biggest influencer that a brand might want to partner with is not always the best influencer. What’s interesting is that sometimes the small, and I’m not talking about all the way down to being nobody, but sometimes there’s like a sweet spot there where the influencer is kind of in the middle but their follower base is way more engaged because they’re very focused about who they have following them. That’s the ideal.

 

  • If you want to become an influencer or you want to connect with other influencers, you want to connect with the people where their followers take action, when they recommend something or they use something like those people sit up and pay attention and go, “Hey, what’s that? What are they drinking? What’s going on here? I want to know what that is.” Sometimes those influencers are not the biggest ones. They don’t have the general audience. They have more of like the niche audience because we’ve noticed that in the podcasting world too. That’s part of who we go after when we want to hook people up with other podcast hosts on their show is we look for those like, “Hey, who has a really narrowly focused show that has a great engaged follower base, not just who has the biggest name we can go after on this space.”

 

  • A lot of times those people show up and they’ve got so much else going on, you never get their full attention and they don’t show up fully present and they’re not great guests. You know what I’m saying? Sometimes going after the biggest name is not actually the best thing for you, it’s the micro people.

Stacy Jones: 26:51

  • Well, and that’s the same thing, as you said, with influencer marketing. That’s why nano and micro influencers are the hot new conversation with everyone.

Matt Johnson: 26:57

  • Yeah.

Stacy Jones: 27:01

  • I like that. [crosstalk 00:27:01]. That makes sense.

Matt Johnson: 27:03

  • Is that like microns across?

Stacy Jones: 27:06

  • Basically, micro before we’re anything up to 10,000 now they’ve kind of cap that at … So a nano is going to be someone who is probably around two to 5,000 followers.

Matt Johnson: 27:15

  • Okay. That makes sense. That sounds like a micro-

Stacy Jones: 27:18

  • It’s a micro. Yeah. Everyone has to start somewhere, right? There’s like the everyday Jane and then you can become a nano influencer.

Matt Johnson: 27:29

  • Well, I aspire to go through the levels. That’s hilarious. And you do, you have to sort those people out. What you do is really, really fascinating because you do it in a definitely a bigger space than I operate in because everything that I do, like working with coaches and consultants and stuff like that, it’s super niche and I love it. I love it. I love when we talk about marketing mistakes, right? The biggest mistake I ever made was just not being as focused as I needed to be because everything flows from how focused you are. The less focused I was, the harder it was to market, and I noticed it because it was hard. I started getting referrals that weren’t a good fit.

 

  •   I’m like that, “That tells me something. That tells me my positioning is not clear enough.” When I get people that were on my podcast with me, and I mean people that had hosted a podcast with me for a year. Sending me people who weren’t a good fit, I’m like, “Okay. I need to get way more focused.” That’s helped a lot. You run an agency, I mean, you know the battle everybody goes through it, but it definitely, agencies I think probably struggle with it a lot because we’re creative and we like the process of serving lots of different types of people. But holy cow, getting focused and really zeroing in on just serving one type of person is really hard. But the clearer I’ve gotten on, the better I feel.

Stacy Jones: 28:56

  • Well, agency owners have one Achilles heel that I think is pretty common, and it’s that we’re all very helpful. We want to help people.

Matt Johnson: 29:04

  • Oh God, yes. Yeah, that’s true.

Stacy Jones: 29:07

  • I’ve actually had to create systems in place. The reason why we have an online class teaching influencer marketing and product placement and 70 endorsements is, I had to put a system in place to stop me from trying to help the people who can’t afford us yet, right? Seriously. I built-

Matt Johnson: 29:24

  • That’s so true and it’s brilliant. Yes, I know you’re right.

Stacy Jones: 29:27

  • … I built a higher program for people who just weren’t ready to have an agency like ours help them yet, but they were interested and I could see that I could help them and I could fix their problems. I’m a problem fixer and that’s what we are as agency owners.

Matt Johnson: 29:42

  • You’re so funny.

Stacy Jones: 29:42

  • Right?

Matt Johnson: 29:43

  • Yeah. I hadn’t thought of it that way. But yeah, that’s a very, very good strategy intentionally creating a course or some type of passive program where you can send people through to say, “Hey, I can’t serve you. You’re not right and not a good fit for the agency, but this is what I can do.” You can say yes, rather than saying, no. That’s a really good point.

Stacy Jones: 30:02

  • I know that the material I put together is super valuable. It’s great. It’s what I practice, I preach, I train people on. If I can give that to someone and then not feel the burden of still trying to have to help them, I can send the right amount of time with the right clients actually that aren’t the right ones to do.

Matt Johnson: 30:22

  • Yeah, yeah. You’re 100% right. I talked to a client about this because she coaches people that are very much like that they have the helpful gene and it’s very tough because it’s … She calls it the ideal client scale and we spend a lot of our time helping the people that we think need us the most. Unfortunately, a lot of those people they’re unclear about what they want to do. That’s part of why they “need” someone so badly because they themselves are not clear enough to where they’ve overcome some of those hurdles.

 

  • Once you start to realize that there’s some of their own kind of just lack of clarity and other types of self sabotage, it does set you free a little bit from feeling like you have to help everybody. But if you still feel that urge, yeah, go and create a course and give them something and say, “Hey, even if it’s free” … I mean, imagine if you had to give that sucker away, but it’s saved you from investing time into people that will never pay you, think of how much money that would save.

Stacy Jones: 31:20

  • Oh, no. I do have an intro one that is free.

Matt Johnson: 31:22

  • Do you really-

Stacy Jones: 31:23

  • Yes. I really have a solution for anyone that I can help and it helps me.

Matt Johnson: 31:28

  • Oh, man.

Stacy Jones: 31:29

  • It makes me not waste time with my team too. I think that’s what’s so important and then as a entrepreneur, I think where you start seeing these totally sidebars, when you start seeing that you are taking on projects and conversations with people because you don’t want to waste your team’s time having them talk to them because it’s so not on topic of what you’re supposed to be doing. That’s a clear sign that you’re going off track.

Matt Johnson: 31:55

  • Yes. That is a good point. You have to think about that.

Stacy Jones: 31:59

  • Don’t do that one. I’ve done that. Don’t do that one either. You’ve done your team on board, they are the perfect podcast pitch assistant. They are using your course, it is rocking and rolling, they are booking you on to all sorts of different opportunities right now. That’s great.

Matt Johnson: 32:20

  • It goes back to the focus like what’s the next step, right? You’ve got that machine in place, how is it actually generating authority, and visibility, and relationships, and all that stuff. To me, it goes back to focus. If you got somebody pitching you consistently and relentlessly week in and week out, the only way that that can not produce the results you want is just if you’re not focused in the content that you share when you show up. Again, that’s a positioning decision that has to be made before you ever go out and become a guest.

 

  •  Now, you can work it out along the way. Don’t let that stop you, but just know that the goal of getting interviewed is to achieve the clarity and the doing in the sense that, hey, if you’re not quite sure what your positioning is, if you’re not quite sure kind of what your signature message is going to be, don’t stop and try to figure it out in isolation. Just start getting on podcasts, but get on podcasts with the intention to watch very carefully what the people respond to. What do the podcast host? What phrases do they key in on and go, “Oh, that’s really good. Let’s dig deeper on that.”

 

  • Or when people listen and reach out after they’ve heard a podcast interview, what did they tell you they enjoyed, right? Start watching for those things and you’ll start to get like clear and clear on the things that resonate with people. Then you can still make that decision to say, “Okay, I’m going to lean into this and this is the one thing I need to be known for.” In your case, if it’s influencer marketing, then you’d want to be interviewed all over the place, but not just on anything.

 

  • You don’t want to talk about agency business models over here, and then celebrities over here, and then blogging and bill. You want to talk about seven different things. You just want to talk about influencer marketing because then, that’s when you get that reputation of being recognized for that one thing. To me, that’s that next level. That’s that next step of actually becoming micro famous and becoming a micro influencer, if that makes sense.

Stacy Jones: 34:12

  • When you do have opportunity to be on someone’s podcast, do you need to come to the table with what your pitch is like? Do you need something? Do you need a product? Do you need a call to action? Do you need a driver or is it just a conversation?

Matt Johnson: 34:29

  • Well, in some cases, you can just have a conversation. But if you really want to get booked systematically, you need a couple of things. You definitely need a story hook, right? A clear and compelling idea for what you want to talk about and share. That makes sense and you feel like is going to resonate with that person’s audience. That could be your story. One of my clients built nets $1 million off of his real estate business and he works in it one day a week, right?

 

  • When we started first working together and pitching him to podcasts, that’s all we needed, one sentence, right? If you’ve got that one sentence, you’re golden. Now, if you don’t feel like you quite have that, then you have to do a little bit more massaging and tell an interesting story. Maybe you’ve overcome something, maybe you’ve built a unique business or you have a unique niche or something like that. Those are the places that I would look for that. But you definitely need some sort of a story hook.

 

  • Hopefully, that boils down to one very powerful sentence or two of what you can share that grabs the hosts’ attention and gets them to say, yes. That’s the ideal. Then beyond that in terms of a call to action because you asked about that and that’s a really good one. If you really want to see the practical measurable effect of being interviewed on podcasts, to me, it’s about getting people into your email list. Can you get them from the podcast into your email list? For example, I give the call to action earlier, right? I didn’t give something that had a bunch of hyphens in it.

 

  • It didn’t have a bunch of unique characters, there’s no dashes, there’s no anything, right? It’s just my website slash something. Giving out something it’s very clear but also very verbally easy to write down and easy to remember is really key. Because you mentioned, people are listening. They’re not sitting in front of their computer necessarily watching us ready to jump on and click on a link. It has to be something that’s very verbal, it has to make sense to the ear, and then it has to be relatively memorable so that they can go, “Oh, I need to go,” and then they can write it down or something like that and just a way for them to get into your world and get into your email list.

 

  • Then if you’ve got maybe … To me, I like to do primary and secondary calls to action. You have just like, “Hey, here’s how to buy from me. If you’re a coach or consultant, here’s how to hire me. But if you’re not ready to do that, here’s the other option. Here’s how to get into my email list,” and just give them two options of how to interact with you. That way, if somebody really resonates with you, they don’t have to jump through hoops to essentially write you a check. Tell people where they can go to work with you.

Stacy Jones: 36:54

  • That makes sense. With both of these, whether you are the guest or whether you are the host, social media plays a big part of this and making sure that the podcast experience is successful. Can you share a little bit of insight on that?

Matt Johnson: 37:08

  • Yeah. The social media … To me, if you’re interviewed consistently, that can generate essentially most or all of your social media content and really remove that sense of waking up in the morning and going, “Hey, what am I going to post today?” I hate that feeling, right? The best thing about me being interviewed consistently is not only just that I hear from the host that, “Hey, your podcast is live,” and I can share the podcast and that’s well and good. But it also reminds me of interesting conversations I’ve had and interesting questions that I was asked where I can also piggy back on that, and it gives me ideas for other types of things to post on social media.

 

  • I’ll give you an example. I had a great fellow agency owner on my podcast here a couple months ago and she just said something really interesting I was like, “Well, I say no to grow.” That’s really interesting. When the podcast came out, I just went to Facebook and said, “Hey, like I have a podcast conversation coming out today. Tell me what’s the one thing you need to say no to today.” String out a whole string of comments from people. It wasn’t anything groundbreaking, wasn’t huge, but her podcast episode coming out is what reminded me of that interesting thing that we talked about, and I was able to piggyback off that and create social media content for it, even though it wasn’t just me sharing the episode.

 

  • It solves both of those problems just in terms of having something to post, but also just remind you of interesting things that you’ve talked about with people that you can then piggyback off of and create other types of content.

Stacy Jones: 38:36

  • Okay. Then also there’s the aspect of if you are on someone else’s podcast or if they are on yours, having them socially share.

Matt Johnson: 38:44

  • Oh yeah. We solved that problem internally with our agency because our staff reaches out to every guest and just says, “Hey, here’s the graphics, here’s the promo links. We’d appreciate it if you share it.” We just make it as easy as possible, we give them links and graphics and if you’re running your own show, just do the same thing. The way that I do it back in the old days when I was doing this myself is Gmail they have the canned responses, so I just wrote up your podcast is live email and saved it as a canned response, right? Now with my own podcast, because I’m going to invite you to come on my show because I want to talk about your agency, but let’s say we record the episode and it comes out, you’re going to get an email from me a few weeks later when your episode comes out from my Gmail.

 

  • The thing is, is that I’m no longer writing those. My staff is writing those. They attach the graphics, they attach the links, and they send it from my Gmail account because I gave them access and they use the canned response. That’s a little time saving. I am always looking for a little fun hacks like that where it furthers the relationship. It does what I want it to do, but I don’t have to do it because it’s really not high value work. It’s something that’s 12 to $15 an hour work.

Stacy Jones: 39:50

  • Right. Something that you can easily outsource.

Matt Johnson: 39:52

  • Yeah. If you’re hosting a podcast, you’ve got to make it easy for guests to share. Graphics and links to their show on iTunes and links to the episode on your website. Make sure that they at least equip them. You’re not going to be able to solve the problem if they just don’t share it because they’re too busy. That’s one of the reasons why I want to … One of the changes that I want to make in the world is that every influencer should have this new media person and their job is to pitch them on podcast, get booked, get guests on their own podcast, host coach content to social media because right now it’s, you know, it’s like hit or miss on whether people actually share their episodes.

 

  • But if they had somebody in house that that was part of their job description, it would get done and that’s kind of the next change that needs to happen is we all need a dedicated new media person on our team that that is their job. It’s just they do nothing but new media. When that change happens, I think that we’ll see a big shift where more episodes are being shared and we get more traction.

Stacy Jones: 40:53

  • Right. Otherwise, as an agency owner or a business coach or entrepreneur, it’s awfully hard to find those extra hours sometimes.

Matt Johnson: 41:00

  • Yeah. It just feels like one more thing to do and it just doesn’t get done. You’re like, “Oh, I had a podcast episode come out. Now, I’ve got 17 other things I need to do in the next [inaudible 00:41:08].

Stacy Jones: 41:09

  • Right, right. Oh look, I did all this podcast episodes and I forgot to email the guests. No one socially shared, and you’ve just lost some of your magic sauce.

Matt Johnson: 41:16

  • Yes, exactly. You lost some of their relationship juice. That’s what really … If you’re interviewing people, I mean, these are all people I want to be in relationship with. They’re cool people, they’re people I want to hang out with. I mean, I just hung out this weekend with one of my first podcast guest because she was in town in San Diego for an event. We hung out for a few hours. These are people I want to be friends with. I don’t want to interview them and then not have let them know when their episode goes out.

Stacy Jones: 41:39

  • Yeah. Jumping back to a comment you made earlier and inquiring minds like me want to know and I bet our listeners do too. You mentioned that smaller podcasts could make lots of money. Everyone’s like, “Really, I can make money at something. Okay, how do I do that”

Matt Johnson: 41:58

  • Yeah. Well, here’s the deal. I would not say I’m great at monetizing a podcast for the masses. To me, the more focus that you get, and this applies not only to the podcast, but just to the business behind the podcast. I don’t take on a client that doesn’t have a clear business behind the show where there’s a very straight line from listeners hearing them and giving them a check, right? Some of the most successful examples I can point you to, would be like one of my very first clients. He was already running a workshop where people would pay three grand to come into his office, tour his office, and they would walk away with all of his systems and intellectual property very, very clear, crystal clear what they’re getting.

 

  • We started to put them on the podcast and then we launched his show and he would just have people literally go onto his website, put their credit card in for $3,000, get on a plane and go to Omaha, Nebraska of all places and show up at his office. They’ve never had a conversation with anyone, they didn’t go through any sales teams, they didn’t have to have a phone call of any kind, they didn’t go through a Webinar or nothing. They heard him on the podcast, they went to a page, they paid $3,000, and they showed up at another city across halfway across the country. That doesn’t happen without the trust being built up regularly, but also doesn’t happen without having a super high, something super, super valuable, very, very clear that appeals to only a very small niche audience, which is why we were able to ramp that up into a six figure income stream.

 

  • Then off the back of that, he built a successful group coaching program that is also like a multi six figure income stream now and all came from the podcast, but it all came from the focus of the business behind the podcast. The more narrowly focused in the higher value it was to the cream of the crop of an industry, the easier it was to monetize the podcast. That was a big revelation to me because my first show was not super niche.

 

  • I mean, it was in real estate, but that was for the masses of that industry. We’ve tried a bunch of stuff to monetize. We have a team of 50 real estate agents across the country that are technically underneath us and blah, blah, blah. It’s fine. It was not as easy to … I did a better job of monetizing that podcast that I mentioned with the coaching and the events than I did have my own show because he had the better business behind the podcast. To me, that’s the biggest thing that people need to understand about podcasting. It’s not about the podcast, it’s about the business behind the podcast.

 

  • If that is narrowly focused and it’s a very clear straight line to people writing you a high dollar check, you’ll have no problem monetizing your show. Anything less than that and you have to count on the show getting popular and there’s no control of that. It might happen and it might not.

Stacy Jones: 44:35

  • Okay. The trick here with Mr. Omaha was that he actually had something that was super packaged and turn key that he could sell as not necessarily a long form service. Not necessarily here in a year, you’re going to work with me and this is going to be the end result. It was literally something turnkey that required action for someone to go do something. But you literally said they came in, they did whatever on site, they walked away and that was it.

Matt Johnson: 45:06

  • Yeah. That does help. Yeah. Having something that’s very clear where they get a super high value in a short amount of time, absolutely, that helps a lot because then that builds the trust and then he was able to sell something that was longer term off of the back of that once the relationships were already built and he had all the credibility in the world. Yeah. That’s one of the things that when I have a new client come on board nowadays, one of the very first questions that I kind of lead them through is to think about it like, “Hey, if you divide your category up into the many and the few, who do you want to speak to?

 

  • If I listen to a prospect come in and they’re thinking about podcasting and they’re talking about how people need to take action, for example. Well, if you’re talking, if you’re motivating people to take action, you are automatically talking to the non action takers, right? Getting people to really think deeply about who they’re speaking to is really important to me because I want to work with the people that have something to sell and something to say to the people who are the few of their industry because to me that’s a much easier direct path to monetizing a show. The same thing goes if you’re a guest by the way too, so all these apply. It doesn’t matter if you’re a podcast host, it’s just being an influencer and then monetizing your influence.

Stacy Jones: 46:21

  • Any other ways to monetize? Are there sponsorship opportunities? Are there ways to-

Matt Johnson: 46:26

  • There are. The sponsorship opportunities … I have a sponsor from my main podcast right now and the reason that they pulled the trigger on it, number one is relationship. As always relationships, trump, everything, right? Then you have to be able to influence people to take action. The more focused you are on, the narrower the audience that you have, the more likely they are to be the action takers because that’s really what determines whether sponsorships will stay on with you because people will get a lot of like dabblers. They’ll dabble with sponsoring with you the, but the problem is you want the longterm relationships. I don’t know if you’ve dabbled much in it, but we’ve dabbled with sponsorships with my podcast just enough to know that it’s a pain in the butt to custom introductions, custom mid roll commercials, inserting all of that stuff.

 

  • It’s doable but it is pain. If you’re going to go through the pain, the reward better be worth it. I don’t want to have a sponsor that rotates every month or every two months. I want a longterm relationship with a sponsor that gets long term value out of the relationship. In order to do that, we have to be able to drive people to take action. They have to be able to actually track back results to us.

Stacy Jones: 47:37

  • You have to also even more so make sure you have those helpers in place on your team to help manage something along those lines.

Matt Johnson: 47:46

  • Yeah. In fact, one of my clients just stopped doing … she had a company that would hook up sponsorships for her, but that’s what they were like. They were consumer packaged goods companies that would come and sponsor her podcast for like two months and then they’d have different promo codes and all this stuff. It was so much work. Even with us helping her produce podcast, just the work that they expected her to do in terms of recording custom commercials was enough that she basically gave up, I think it was like two grand a month in income. She said it’s not worth it. I saw one of my group coaching program and that offsets that.

 

  • The opportunity costs of sponsorships is interesting because you always have to take into account if you’re the expert, if you’re the influencer, if you’re the micro famous one, every second you spend promoting something that’s a sponsor as a second year, not promoting your own thing. If you have something high dollar and highly valuable to sell, you’re probably better off served promoting that than somebody who’s a sponsorship deal.

Stacy Jones: 48:42

  • That’s great advice for everyone listening here today. Is there any other last words of advice since on that one that you’d like to share with people?

Matt Johnson: 48:58

  • Yeah. I think I recorded an episode the other day of my podcast and I’ve been thinking a lot about how podcasts grow and just how influence grows. The thing that I’m really coming to real clarity on is just how important it is to have a very clear and compelling idea behind what you do. One of my clients brought this up the other day because about half of all the guests that he has on his show are turning into sales opportunities for his agency. And I said, “Okay, well, how does that work?” Basically, when I have the pre interview conversation with them because I just tell them like, “Hey, this is the mission of the show and this is what we do. We help X, Y, and Z people do this.” What happens is they hear that and they go, “Oh my God, really? Seriously, that’s what you do? Okay, we need to talk after the podcast.”

 

  • If you’re running a show or you’re being a guest on a show and you’re not getting that reaction from people, that tells you, you don’t have a clear and compelling idea, and it needs to be razor sharp and polished up until you get to the point where you get that reaction from the people that you want to work with. Stacy, if I was talking to you and you hadn’t started your podcast yet and you hadn’t built a team that produced it and you came across me and I said, “I help agency owners start and launch podcasts where they don’t have to do anything.” We do all of it for them. Most likely that would have got the, “Oh my God, we need to talk about this reaction.”

 

  • You’re exactly my type of person and we just met the wrong time, but if we met the right time, you are exactly the right kind of person that my clear and compelling idea would have caught you off guard and we probably would’ve had a sales conversation. That’s the ideal that you’re going for is keep sharpening that idea to the point where when you talk to your ideal clients or your ideal audience, they go, “Holy cow. I need to learn more about that.”

Stacy Jones: 50:40

  • Ideally, 100% in this case I will have other people that I will recommend you to. It still has that effect.

Matt Johnson: 50:48

  • It does. Yeah. Relationships are everything. You know?

Stacy Jones: 50:49

  • Yeah. Works in reverse too because I found myself in several instances now where I have interviewed a guest and then had an offline with them afterwards and hired them in order to stop some pay agency. I’m like, “This is the reverse of monetization.”

Matt Johnson: 51:04

  • Yes. It’s funny because I think I might end up hiring somebody to get involved in my agency as a project manager who bought my podcast pitch assistant course. So, yeah. You never like weird things happen when you want to get into the podcasting world. The relationship part is probably the most fun for me. It’s why I like strategic introductions or one of the key metrics I track just for my own personal activity in the business. What do I bring to the business? I track the number of strategic introductions I make because the relationships have just … To me, that’s the lifeblood of my business.

Stacy Jones: 51:35

  • Well, also having a podcast conversation, whether it’s a 20 minute podcast or a 40 minute podcast, however long it is, you’re not having that same opportunity. If you added a networking event, you’re saying, “Hi, how are you?” Five minutes to chat. You’re really kind of feeling each other up about what the other can give to you versus what you can give to them. Right?

Matt Johnson: 51:59

  • Yeah. You sound like sizing up.

Stacy Jones: 52:00

  • How can you take their money and you’re both trying to do that on both sides of the street, right? Or you’re in the world of emails and the conversation is just not in depth enough. You don’t truly get-

Matt Johnson: 52:12

  • There’s no real person.

Stacy Jones: 52:14

  • That’s what podcasts guests actually do for you because you don’t know where those relationships are going to lead, and you do end up having these connections that are much deeper and more real. What I was saying earlier where I get so energized from the guests that we have on, you’re connecting with people who are at the top of their game in their business.

Matt Johnson: 52:34

  • Yes.

Stacy Jones: 52:35

  • That is nice to cut through all of that and find that and find people who are on a growth pattern because you both are going to balance each other and help each other in that way.

Matt Johnson: 52:47

  • Yeah. With podcasts, you get to cut right to talking about something that they’re super passionate about, which is always when people enjoy themselves the most. So yeah, I couldn’t have said that better myself. I’ve said those same types of things because I’ve noticed all the same things. For anyone on the outside looking in, it’s hard to know what it feels like until you experience it. The best way to experience it, is just go start being a guest, and you’ll see what we’re talking about. The relationships that you build, the connections that you build are so incredible. I could not estimate. I mean, podcasting has changed my life and it’s the relationships that came from podcasting that changed my life.

Stacy Jones: 53:24

  • Yeah. 100%. Matt, how can people get a hold of you?

Matt Johnson: 53:29

  • Easiest way. For the podcast production service, if you’re a coach, consultant or an agency owner who serves that market, just go to pursuingresults.com for information on the agency that we run that produces podcasts. Then if you want to be a guest on podcasts, go to pursuingresults.com/training and that’s where we teach you exactly how to get on the right podcast and how to get ideal clients flocking to you.

Stacy Jones: 53:49

  • Oh, that is awesome. Thank you, Matt, so much for being on today. I really enjoyed it and I-

Matt Johnson: 53:54

  • I had a blast.

Stacy Jones: 53:54

  • … chatting with you. Then until next time and we chat again.

Matt Johnson: 53:59

  • Sounds good.

Stacy Jones: 54:00

  • Okay. Have a great day.

Matt Johnson: 54:01

  • You too.

Stacy Jones: 54:02

  • And we’re out.

Matt Johnson: 54:03

  • Cool.

Stacy Jones: 54:03

  • That was great. Thank you so much.

Matt Johnson: 54:05

  • Yeah, I had a blast. I actually did have a blast. That was really good. I love the feel. The flow of it was great. Super conversational. It was back and forth. It wasn’t just you setting me up for softball questions. We actually got into some really fun in depth stuff, and you shared your opinion. Yeah. It’s awesome. One of my clients the other day asked me like, “Hey, how do I make sure that like the interviews that I’m having are conveying my point of view?” You did exactly the right thing. You conveyed your point of view on things, you didn’t hold back, you didn’t just shine so much with the spotlight on me that you fade into the background. You did just a really fantastic job.

Stacy Jones: 54:43

  • Well, thank you. You also are a good guests and are able to do that because I’ve had guests before where it’s like a runaway train and they don’t ever stop.

Matt Johnson: 54:50

  • No, I hate that.

Stacy Jones: 54:51

  • They just talk.

Matt Johnson: 54:52

  • I feel like I’m being that way sometimes and I saw I’m overly conscious. I know I can get a little wordy. But yeah, I hate those guests. They’re terrible. You just feel like you’re being taken.

Stacy Jones: 55:01

  • Well, I don’t think I feel like I’m being taken. I just feel like it’s that one way conversation. You don’t have that ebb and flow. That is that energy exchange that does actually bring listeners to enjoy what they’re listening to.

Matt Johnson: 55:15

  • Yeah, exactly. They may come out and be a big fan of the guest. Great. Awesome. It’s like the runaway freight train is a funny thing. It’s never fun. I’ve had just a couple of those on the UX podcasts like in the agency world. Basically, I think one guy legitimately talks for 45 minutes straight. I didn’t get a word in for 40 minutes.

Stacy Jones: 55:40

  • I know like yes, yeah. Yeah.

Matt Johnson: 55:43

  • It’s like a Webinar. I’m like, “What did you think this was? What is going on here?” Anyway.

Stacy Jones: 55:47

  • I haven’t had that. It’s interesting, but you’re a great guest-

Matt Johnson: 55:47

  • Thank you.

Stacy Jones: 55:51

  • … so thank you so much. We will be sharing podcast links. We also will turn this into a blog after a week afterwards and share it out through our email newsletter or ShareIt, the sharing of the socials. We’ll do all of those things that will get you so that you can share away and socialize this and that would be-

Matt Johnson: 55:51

  • Cool.

Stacy Jones: 55:51

  • … awesome. Thank you.

Matt Johnson: 56:10

  • A question for you, who can I introduce you to? Who do you want to meet? Who you want to have on the podcast? Profile of a person.

Stacy Jones: 56:16

  • Yeah. Anyone who is top of their game, someone who is in marketing. When I say in marketing, could be on the agency side, it could be on the brand side as well. I had a conversation earlier today, we chatted about how to work as a brand owner with agencies better, right? Really, what I’m trying to do is tips and tools for brands and agencies on how to work this entire world of marketing in a better way. I’ve had lawyers on to talk about the laws that are in regards to influencer marketing, I’ve had an FTC regulations, I’ve had a lot of agency owners who talk about everything from social media, to inbound, to podcasting, to branded content creation, to other people who specialize in influencer marketing because I am not shy.

 

  •   I’m certainly not the only person who specializes in this. I love talking to people who specialize in influencer marketing. Really, anyone who is within an agency role on that side who could help bestow guidance and insight to a brand or brand manager. How did it-

Matt Johnson: 57:37

  • Let me run one by you real quick.

Stacy Jones: 57:39

  • How to market better?

Matt Johnson: 57:40               ‘

  • How to market better. Remember that client I mentioned that stopped doing her sponsors on her podcast because of what it was like to work with the smart, so she is the influencer, right? Would that be an interesting conversation?

Stacy Jones: 57:52

  • 100%.

Matt Johnson: 57:52

  • You want a successful brand and she’s speaking at social media marketing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Stacy Jones: 57:55

  • I love talking with individual influencers, how they like working with agencies, how they like working with brands. What could someone do to actually mess up working on an influencer relationship from that side point? 100%.

Matt Johnson: 58:09

  • Her name is Dana. She runs a brand called boss mom. Awesome. Then do you know Rich Brooks, Agents of Change? He runs a-

Stacy Jones: 58:18

  • A down.

Matt Johnson: 58:18

  • I mean, this is a fellow agency owner, so he might be good. He runs a good podcast and a good webinar. I’m sure some other people will come to mind. Actually, the girl that Steven Western sent to me might also be good. She is a coach and does a lot of work with bigger brands like Microsoft.

Stacy Jones: 58:38

  • Yeah. All of that is great.

Matt Johnson: 58:42

  • Okay. Let me put some feelers out and make sure that they’re okay with the introductions if they all sound good to you. You might see those come out over the course of the week or so. But I love the opportunity to add value and you being a podcast host is the easiest introduction in the world. You know how that goes?

Stacy Jones: 58:56

  • I do. So it’s awesome. I appreciate that.

Matt Johnson: 58:57

  • It was a pleasure.

Stacy Jones: 58:59

  • You too. Have a great day.

Matt Johnson: 59:00

  • Oh, you too.

Stacy Jones: 59:01

  • Good luck playing the drums planning the time.

Matt Johnson: 59:05

  • We’ll try.

Stacy Jones: 59:05

  • Okay.

Matt Johnson: 59:05

  • Bye. Take care.

Stacy Jones: 59:07

  • Bye.

Matt Johnson: 59:07

  • Bye, bye.

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