In this episode, Stacy sits down with expert level Certified Life Coach Tullio Siragusa, who is also a Chief Strategy Officer at Nearsof as well as a co-producer and host of the podcast DojoLIVE! The two discuss how a sense of self impacts your leadership and business, and they discuss all there is to know about emotional intelligence and value-based branding.
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Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. I’m Stacy Jones, the founder of influencer marketing and branded content agency Hollywood Branded. This podcast provides brand marketers a learning platform for top experts to share their insights and knowledge on topics which make a direct impact on your business today. While it is impossible to be well versed on every topic and strategy that can improve bottom line results, my goal is to help you avoid making costly mistakes of time, energy, or money, whether you are doing a DIY approach or hiring an expert to help. Let’s begin today’s discussion.Speaker 2: 00:31
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. Here’s your host, Stacy Jones.Stacy Jones: 00:36
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. I’m Stacy Jones. I’m so happy to be here with you all today, and I’d like to give a very warm welcome to our guest today, an expert level, certified life coach who’s on a mission to help others believe in themselves more. Tullio Siragusa. Tullio currently serves as chief strategy officer at Nearsoft, and he co-produces and hosts Dojo Live, a podcast platform that gives voice to emerging technology luminaries. He’s a dynamic keynote speaker, three time author, and is passionate about wanting everyone on this planet to be able to step into their best self and break free of the mindset prison of not good enough.Stacy Jones: 01:13
Today we’re going to talk about emotional intelligence and values-based branding and much more. We’ll learn what’s worked from his experience, what could be avoided, and how some people are just missing the mark. Tullio, welcome. So happy to have you here today.Tullio Siragusa: 01:26
I am so glad to be here, Stacy. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to our chat today.Stacy Jones: 01:31
Yes. Well, for our listeners, can you share a little bit about your background and what got each where you are today, and how you are positioned and how you know all the things you know?Tullio Siragusa: 01:45
Well, I’ve spent 30 years in technology, and in the past 15 years I went on a bit of a personal journey to have some more self-realization, understand myself a little bit better, and in the process of doing that, I really got to grip with what makes a lot of us tick, and the things that also holds us back from having breakthroughs in our lives, and how this translates into how we run businesses, how we lead organizations. So there’s a trickle down effect that happens, and it all starts with the person in the mirror. This journey has taken me to a place that has also allowed me to do some research around a very specific topic. I started studying different streams of consciousness about the ego, and there’s books and volumes of content about the ego, and everybody’s got a different opinion. Kill the ego, master the ego, overcome the ego, use the ego, so many different consciousness around that, and I started asking this question just a few years ago. What is the cause of, for example, negative ego?Tullio Siragusa: 02:57
I knew I could observe the manifestation of it, because I could observe it in myself, I could observe it and others. The need to be in control, the need to be right, the need to look good. All these various masks, the feeling of not being good enough, the impostor syndrome, all of these things that we often manifest is all related to just negative ego, but my question started being, where does it come from? What is the cause of negative ego? I get the cause of someone who’s needing to be right all the time. It’s because of ego, but what is the cause of that ego?Tullio Siragusa: 03:35
I really started digging into that and working as a volunteer, as a coach, as a volunteer for a past decade specifically in some circles with men, I discovered a lot of things about myself and discovered a lot of things and commonalities with individuals that struggled with the manifestation of negative ego, and I’ll share what that is in just a few minute, but one thing that really became clear to me is there’s a difference on the people that have a sense of the leadership style that’s empowering versus those that have more of a controlling mindset, and the one thing they have in common is those who empower have an incredible high sense of self worth. They are in a place where their sense of worth is based on something internally directed versus based on external outcomes, versus those who tend to be more in the need to control and also manifests a little bit more insecurity tend to have lower sense of worth, which is tied to outcomes.Tullio Siragusa: 04:45
So for example, in my study, only 1% of the people were able to be so inner directed that it didn’t matter whether they succeeded at something or not. It didn’t change how they perceived themselves, how they view themselves. About 2% were a bit of a hybrid. They were inner-directed as well as outcome-directed, but 98% are completely externally directed. In other words, if I’m doing great in my career, then I feel good about myself, I feel like I’m worthy. If I’m not doing so good in my relationship, then I’m going to lower my sense of self. So all these constant judgments that we have about ourselves, it affects how we behave and how we show up. This particularly has an impact on leadership and leadership development, and how you lead an organization, and the experience of the people that such a leader have being in that environment. We’ve talked about toxic environments. Well, at the helm of that toxic environment, it’s usually someone who’s insecure, doesn’t feel that great about themselves, and it’s manifesting some negative experience.
Tullio Siragusa: 05:56
Now from a value-based perspective, in terms of understanding yourself, if you’re the founder of a business, the CEO of a business, there are certain values that you live your life by. Whether you’re a person of high integrity, maybe you value being in relationship, maybe you value making a lot of money. Whatever those values are, those are your tenants and guiding posts in your life. So as you build a business, how you brand a business, today it’s become more relevant to align those values with what you want to represent in the marketplace, and the reason for that is because people want to have experiences, and experiences are tied to something that deals with the heart. It’s not here.
Tullio Siragusa: 06:41
So it’s not about how awesome is the product or the service, how great is the company, it’s more about, does this company represent the values that I cherish? Is the leadership aligned with the values that I cherish? In essence, there’s examples of this like in Steve Jobs. He created almost a culture. In fact, he did create a culture around their products and services. It wasn’t exactly the best technology products at the time, but people who wanted to be hip and cool and different and unique all bought Apple products. So there was a sense of attachment to that experience, which was represented in how he led his life and how the entire company was led. So it does make a difference when you don’t have your mindset in the right place in terms of whether you have a high sense of worth or a low sense of worth, the impact it’s going to have on how you show up as a leader, how you show up as a company, and the kinds of customers you’re going to attract.
Stacy Jones: 07:42
That’s interesting, because we’re going through, and you may have heard of this, a lot of people have, the book traction or the platform EOS. Does that sound familiar to you at all?
Tullio Siragusa: 07:54
I haven’t dwelled into that, but I’ve heard of it.
Stacy Jones: 07:57
So part of it is putting together for your company, really a vision board of your values. It’s based on the core values of your company. We started doing this a couple of years ago, and when we’re diving back in, because it’s good to refresh and do all of that. It’s interesting because as I’ve evolved, some of my values have evolved, but I see that my own personal values, I have really pushed on to our company, because I as a leader need to have those values that I’m expecting of other people to be part of the organization I’m leading, because otherwise it’s off. So besides forgetting about clients out there right now, but in an organization on its own, having your values and sharing your values and figuring out what those are and speaking back and forth to one another really does seem to be significant in ensuring your company is kind of rolling around on a track happily.
Tullio Siragusa: 08:56
Well, Stacy, there’s a lot of talk about pursuing your passion. If you’re going to do something you’re passionate about, you’re going to be successful at it. But I really believe that what you’re actually pursuing is your values, because they are authentically, genuinely representation of who you are, and of course, you’re going to be passionate about who you are, because there’s only one version of you. I’ve had conversations with numerous companies, and especially startups, in an advisor capacity, trying to figure out how do we market ourselves? How do we brand ourselves? One of the common mistakes is to think about doing all this data research and [inaudible 00:09:35] We’re going to identify what key things people think care about, and it’s like you’re literally following the wind and trying to chase it in the hopes that you’re going to attract people that are on that wind wave as well.
Tullio Siragusa: 09:48
It’s not an effective sustainable strategy, because you can’t fake something that you’re not. For example, I had one company, an Italian company, as a matter of fact, that has developed some technology for making it safer to be on the roads. They have some predictable technology with traffic lights that can help determine possible traffic problems or accidents and things of that nature, which is certainly designed to help reduce the amount of accidents, in which case it could actually reduce injury and improve people’s lives by actually saving lives where possible. So the way that the CEO was presenting it, and the way he was talking about it, was very driven from this traditional, mechanistic sort of mindset of, “How do I create value for the buyers of this product? What is the benefit?” The traditional evaluation of doing that, which is very valid, but then I simply asked him, I said, “Okay, why did you build this business? What is it about you as a person where this actually matters to you? Why is it important to you?”
Tullio Siragusa: 11:03
We started digging into his values, and one of them was he values people’s lives. He wants to uphold life. So he cares about people. He wants people to be safe. There are certain intrinsic personal values that have been the guiding post for his entire life, and so I said, “Okay, so your business is to save people’s lives. It doesn’t matter what the technology is. You’re helping to save lives.” So when you begin to shape it from that mindset, when you go pitch it to investors, the investor you want to get is the investor who also cares about saving lives. The customers you want to get are customers who care about saving lives. So you create a culture and environment where you attract like minded individuals, like minded employees, like minded partners, like minded customers. That’s when you create an unstoppable brand, because there’s no one who can get in the way of that kind of a culture. Missions, methodologies following the wind. All these things change and evolve, and your business can go up and down just like the wind or rollercoaster, but I really believe that if organizations are centered around human values that are personal, that are authentic and genuine, you could become an unstoppable organization, because you attract people that also value those same things.
Stacy Jones: 12:25
Sure, and it’s true, because when you have an organization and the values are not shared internally, it’s like a train wreck. Everyone’s driving in different directions, and no one is rowing that boat in the same direction.
Tullio Siragusa: 12:40
Right. For example, if you’re in the business of making money, there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m like, you want to track people who love making money. So if someone comes in who’s like, “I want to save the planet, I want to help animals,” it may not necessarily align with the desire to make money. You’re not going to have a good time in that organization, and the people there are going to feel like you’re not aligned with where we’re going, and what ends up happening, human nature says, “Oh, we’re different, therefore I’m going to demonize you for being different,” and it’s not about that. It’s about understanding that you can’t be all to all, but be genuine and authentic with what you believe is important to you, because you’re going to attract people that believe in the same thing.
Tullio Siragusa: 13:24
I think smaller companies and newer businesses are really good at that today and better at that today, and that’s, in my opinion, not necessarily because the internet’s faster, there’s the velocity of the internet, the velocity of social media. Those things are important, but I think what’s helped some of these businesses literally leapfrog institutions that have been around for 50, a hundred plus years, it’s because they have started from this mindset of creating more genuine, authentic offerings that aligned with certain values that are very personal to those founders and those CEOs, and people attach themselves to that a lot faster because it’s a feeling they can’t explain. It just feels right. It feels right. I’m associating with people that get who I am and what matters to me, and that’s what drives value and exponential growth, in my opinion.
Stacy Jones: 14:13
No, 100%. So when you’re working with someone and you peer into their company, and you see that the values are not really aligned from top to bottom, what’s the first step that you suggest that they take?
Tullio Siragusa: 14:26
Well, for example, my company, Nearsoft, our culture is very freedom-based culture. So we don’t have bosses, there’s no one to impress, and by nature, as a result of that, everyone can just be themselves and provide a lot of value. So we speak our mind, we’re honest with each other, and we can create tremendous growth, and we’re very agile in how we do things now.
Tullio Siragusa: 14:51
Because we value that, in other words, treating each other as adults, if a client is used to a more command and control work structure where someone’s the boss dictating everything that needs to happen, how you do things, when you do things, that isn’t going to work very well with people that are basically told, “You come here, drive value, generate value. We’re here to make money and profit, but do it on your terms.” Their experience would be a very terrible experience with that client, and we’ve walked away from those opportunities because it just doesn’t fit with our culture. It’s not going to drive. So you have to have the courage as an organization to also say no to those clients that are not going to align with what you want to accomplish. Also, you have to have the courage to say no to those employees that don’t necessarily align with where you’re going, and when you’re desperate for business or when things get difficult, that’s when the real test happens, Stacy. That’s when you really get challenged to see, “Am I going to hold true to these values and standards that I believe in, or am I going to sell myself out because I need to keep moving forward?”
Tullio Siragusa: 16:03
Those are very difficult choices to make, but those organizations that usually stick to their values don’t end up having the struggles like most companies do when there’s a downturn, for example. They just somehow coast right through it, and because they’re not competing in this sort of zero zone proposition, they’re staying true to their values, they’re attracting the right customers, the right employees, and that is a model that just is a scalable and sustainable model.
Stacy Jones: 16:31
Okay. So what is the first step, then, to figuring out what your values are?
Tullio Siragusa: 16:41
Well, it’s not a very difficult exercise. One of the things I recommend is to sit down with yourself and make a list of the things that matter to you. Just personally, things that matter to you. Good health, family, making money, integrity. Just list those tenants that are important to you. What are the kinds of things when you’re looking for a friend, or even better, for a spouse? What are the kinds of qualities you’re looking for in them? Those qualities you’re looking for in them are typically a representation of your own qualities, are things that matter to you. So start out with that list, and then you begin to pair down and say, “Okay, which of the things that are important to me?” Then look at that list and say, “Which of these things am I willing to give my life to stay true to?” Those become your real values, because there’s nothing that can threaten you giving up that value.
Tullio Siragusa: 17:45
If you’re a person of high integrity and someone’s asking you to cut corners or do something that’s not legal or just morally isn’t aligned with who you are, you’re not going to sacrifice that value, because it’s truly something that you live by. You’ll die before you sacrifice that value. So it’s a very sort of serious exercise to get to your own truth in identifying what those are. Typically, I recommend you identify three or four maximum values. It doesn’t have to be an exhaustive list, just three or four things that really matter to you. For me, it’s about vulnerability. I look for people that are vulnerable because I think that creates more authentic, genuine types of relationships. I look for people that have gratitude. So gratitude is one of my values. No matter what’s going on, no matter what’s difficult, you can always find something to be thankful for.
Tullio Siragusa: 18:39
Authenticity. Just be real. Speak your mind, speak your truth, and don’t put on a mass just to manipulate a [inaudible 00:18:49]. If the person doesn’t like what you have to say, they’re not the person for you. If the client doesn’t like what you have to say, they’re not the client for you. Accept that. Lastly, it’s about operating from a place of integrity. That’s just a personal thing for me. Don’t cut corners, don’t sacrifice, and that also means I won’t sell out a friend. If a friend is going down a path that isn’t necessarily going to serve them or could cause problems for other people, I will call them out on it, even if it means sacrificing the relationship, because part of being of high integrity is not selling people out.
Stacy Jones: 19:23
You and I are cut from similar cloths. I have had friends who haven’t spoken to me for months, if not years on occasion, out there, but usually they’ve all come back again.
Tullio Siragusa: 19:34
Well, you know, they say the true definition of a friend is someone that you can speak your mind to and still forgives you and moves on, and actually appreciates that feedback and criticism. I used to have a teacher that said, “If you can find one friend like that for your life, you will have succeeded to have an incredible life. You just need one person like that in your life.” As you know, Stacy, that one person is a hard thing to find, because some people will say, “Oh, I don’t like what you say,” and they walk away, and unfortunately, those are not the true friends that will stick with you no matter what.
Stacy Jones: 20:10
Yeah, it’s true. So what is other advice that you give with this values and figuring out your brand identity through that? Is there any other suggestions you have that people need to keep top of mind?
Tullio Siragusa: 20:25
Once you’ve done that, then begin to shape what you’re going to offer in the marketplace and the message that you want to put out in the marketplace, and focus more on the experience that people will have in doing business with you, because that’s what people really care about, especially today. Marketing is more about winning hearts than minds today, which is why influencer marketing is so big, because it’s personalized. The way people are selling today, it’s not a big company just telling you, “Here’s a best practice, here’s use cases,” those things are great, but people are actually buying from individuals, and those individuals represent something and attract a certain type of customer. So definitely make sure you have the messaging that aligns with that, and then empower individuals in the organization to be the ambassadors, to be the evangelists for what you’re doing.
Tullio Siragusa: 21:22
Don’t push the company from the company’s perspective into the market. Pick your champions that are going to be the voice for the company, and empower them to become the sort of celebrities or the spokespeople or the evangelists for your brand, and definitely pick people that embody those values. That’s a very critical component today to succeeding in the marketplace. I really believe in about 10 to 15 years, maybe even less than that, the whole idea of sales is probably going to go away. It’s really going to come down to influencer marketing, people learning from people, having open conversation. It’s already happening on LinkedIn, for example. People post information, they learn from each other, have conversation, and you end up doing business with people that you tend to feel a certain attraction or likeness with them, and you end up doing business with their company because of those individuals.
Tullio Siragusa: 22:10
So don’t underestimate the power of putting those individuals, those ambassadors, those champions, those evangelists in the marketplace representing your brand, standing on the soapbox, and don’t make it all about just the business. Let them speak who they are. Let people learn about what they value, share their thoughts, share their authentic selves, be vulnerable, because that’s going to attract the kind of customers that you really want.
Stacy Jones: 22:38
You’ve done this to a degree with your podcast.
Tullio Siragusa: 22:41
Yes. In fact, with Dojo Live, which is a weekly video blog that we do, and we do it live, so it’s transmitted on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Twitter, on Twitch, on YouTube, and then it’s recorded and stays on the site, and that has had its own evolution. It started as just a conversation between techies, just to have a little conversation, build community and relationships, and then it evolved into a bit of a Trojan horse. It was like, “Why don’t we go talk to customers that we want to do business with?” We’re going to get to have a half hour conversation with CEOs of technology companies that would otherwise not be open to having a sales meeting, so we’re going to talk to them on the air about their business, about their product, and we’re not going to charge [inaudible 00:23:30], and they get to promote their product and their business and give them some exposure. We did a lot of business that way, as a matter of fact.
Tullio Siragusa: 23:36
So it turned out to be a great tool for that, but over time, as we gained more traction and we gained more audience, we took a moment to stop, and I said, “Okay, what is it that we actually represent? If we had to start this from scratch, what is the message of Dojo Live? What is the purpose? What is the mission of Dojo Live?” We literally went through an entire three months starting from scratch. We looked at our personal values, we listed them out, all the cofounders, we listed them all out, and we looked for intersect on those values, and we landed on several of them that we felt were, “This is what we want the show to be about. It represents who we are, it represents the values we want to put out there.” One of the key things that came out was we have a high interest in bridging and bringing people together. Relationship happened to be a very strong value we all share. Bringing people today, empowering people, educating people was a big value for us, and also this idea that differences sometimes generate a sense of judgment with people. So we wanted to see, how can we eliminate that and just create a model where you can learn about differences without are demonizing them?
Tullio Siragusa: 24:51
A culture in Japan is different than a culture of Germany, it’s different than a culture in Venezuela, but it doesn’t mean that they’re bad, it’s just different. Let’s talk about why they’re different. Let’s talk about how companies have worked together in those multicultural environments, how they’ve succeeded to do that, and let’s talk about where they fail and why they fail, and let’s talk about the personal lessons those CEOs learn in those experiences. So we wanted to make it something vulnerable and raw and real, and one of the other things we talked about is storytelling. Storytelling has been around for thousands of years. It really connects people with their heart.
Tullio Siragusa: 25:26
So we shifted the entire show to be based on a purpose. The purpose is to bridge cultural gaps. So we’re now on a mission to talk to technology company founders and leaders about what it’s like to bring multiple cultures together, what it’s like to be change agents in the world, how you build trust, what challenges you’ve had in building trust. All of these things are relevant in today’s world, especially today. We have such polarizing views. You have two sides right here in the US that are constantly finding each other, so it’s a sort of testament of the times, and we felt, “Well, it aligns with what we care about. Let’s help people learn more about each other,” and so it’s become a vehicle to focus on technology company telling their stories, sharing their successes, their challenges, and in the hopes that people listening can say, “Oh, I didn’t know that. I can try that. Oh, I should try that too. Oh wow. We’re not so different. That is actually something that happens to everybody else too. Maybe we shouldn’t beat ourselves up so badly for having failed so miserably in that initiative, but there’s a way around it.”
Tullio Siragusa: 26:32
So that’s the intent, and ever since we changed that, we have grown in audience quite exponentially, and in fact, even the guests that we’re having on the show, we’ve got a few celebrity guests coming up in April that I’m really proud of and excited to have. So again, it’s a testament of when you focus and shift towards establishing a brand that’s rooted in values, and your message is rooted in those values, you attract the right kinds of guests and the right kind of audience that also care about those same things.
Stacy Jones: 27:03
That makes sense. Well, this is fantastic. I could talk to you, I think, for hours and go off on tangents as well, but our time’s wrapping up. Is there anything else you’d like to share with our listeners today before we say goodbye?
Tullio Siragusa: 27:19
The only thing I want to share is don’t be afraid to experiment and make mistakes, and in fact, I wouldn’t even call them mistakes. Don’t be afraid to learn and grow. We as individuals live in a time where self-development is pretty big business. It’s a want and desire by a lot of people. We need to do the same with businesses. We need to approach how we’re building our companies, how we’re marketing our companies the same way. It’s a learning process. We’re constantly learning and evolving, so don’t be afraid to take risks, don’t be afraid to make those … I don’t want to call them mistakes. Don’t be afraid to learn new ways.
Stacy Jones: 27:59
Well, I think you have to make mistakes. You have to have some failures so that you can actually learn from them. You can’t actually do everything right. It’s impossible.
Tullio Siragusa: 28:08
Absolutely. Absolutely, but the mindset that I encourage people is to shift away from looking at them as mistakes and look at them as, “Okay, I just proved an effective way and it doesn’t work.” it’s kind of like the way science goes about discovering cures for diseases. Thousands of wrong formulations, thousands of failures to get to the right one. So in essence, built into the equation of science is failure, but it’s looked at as just another proven unsuccessful equation until you prove the right one. So the way we treat our own mindset, our own selves and our companies, needs to evolve to the same mindset. We are trying to find the right model, the right way to bring value to the world, and in doing so, we’re going to discover the right way that doesn’t work without making mistakes, and in discovering the right way doesn’t work, we’ll eventually get to crack the code on what does work. So I encourage people to experiment, to look out of the way science looks at it, and continuously find that model, that code that you can crack, that eventually connects with the people who care about the same things you care about.
Stacy Jones: 29:27
Well said. Thank you.
Tullio Siragusa: 29:29
Thank you, Stacy. I’ve had fun being here with you today. All right. How’d it go?
Stacy Jones: 29:37
I think it’s great. I think you did good. I had no weird door knocks. I had my puppy actually in a different room, which didn’t work out so well this morning when she was in the same room, and that was a learning lesson of mine mistake today. Yeah. So you know …
Tullio Siragusa: 29:52
I was starting to get a little anxious because the sun is rising behind me, and I’m like, “I’ll look like I’m glowing.”
Stacy Jones: 29:58
No. Actually, I do my podcast from my house because my office echos and it’s loud, it’s just a problem, and I usually am in my office, and we’re having work done on the side of the house, so I’ve moved away from there, but I have a sunlight above where I record. Sometimes, depending on the time of the day, a beam will come in, and then I get this halo that just alights me, and I’m like, “Wow, this is really impressive or not so good.” I know. [crosstalk 00:30:28]. You’re like, “Let’s sit [inaudible 00:30:30]. Just sit taller.”
Tullio Siragusa: 30:32
[inaudible 00:30:32] the shade [inaudible 00:30:34] and light meant.
Stacy Jones: 30:37
Perfect. You just can do a little namaste, and you’re all set.
Tullio Siragusa: 30:40
Stacy Jones: 30:42
It’s all good. Tullio, thank you again, and we will certainly put up your information as well in the show notes, so anyone can check out if they happen to be driving or walking and not writing when you were talking about where you could find your podcast, and to all of our listeners, thank you so much for tuning into Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them today. I look forward to chatting with you next week.
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