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Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). I’m Stacy Jones, the founder of influencer marketing and branded content agency, Hollywood Branded. This podcast provides brand marketers a learning platform for top experts to share their insights and knowledge on topics which make a direct impact on your business today. While it is impossible to be well versed on every topic and strategy that can improve bottom line results, my goal is to help you avoid making costly mistakes of time, energy, or money, whether you are doing a DIY approach or hiring an expert to help. Let’s begin today’s discussion.Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). Here’s your host, Stacy Jones.Stacy Jones (00:36):
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). I’m Stacy Jones, and I’m so happy to be here with you all today. And I want to give a very warm welcome to Mari-Liis Vaher. Mari-Liis is a CEO and founder of Powerful Marketers, where she helps international companies of all sizes balance their teams and improve the quality of employment relationships using proven techniques and tools to generate long-term success. With almost 20 years of practical, hands-on experience both as an entrepreneur and helping B2C and B2B companies with their marketing, she is widely regarded as a top marketer in her industry and has appeared in national publications and speaking events, and is also the author of 10 Steps Toward the Perfect Advertising Gift.Stacy Jones (01:17):
Today, Mari-Liis will be sharing insight on the marketer’s mindset and how not figuring out this essential component can hold not only the marketing of your business back, but you yourself as a business professional. We’ll learn what works from Mari-Liis’s perspective, what should be avoided, and how some just miss the mark. Mari-Liis, welcome. So happy to have you here today.Mari-Liis Vaher (01:38):
Hello. Thank you for having me, Stacy.Stacy Jones (01:41):
Well, I want to start off and have you share a little bit more about you, how you got to where you are today, and also for everyone to know, she is calling in from Estonia. So, this is definitely an international call and chat from a worldview on marketing. Mari-Liss, can you share a little bit more about yourself?Mari-Liis Vaher (02:03):
Yeah. Sure. Thank you. So, I’ve been into sales and marketing for almost 20 years. And as I started, I also want to learn those business fundamentals and marketing as most of us do. But after I got my MBA, then I remember I also started my first company and I wasn’t doing bad at the time, but I wasn’t really growing too. I got some clients, but I wasn’t very satisfied, but at the same time, there were things happening in my personal life that affected me a lot. So, my mother got a cancer and she died a year later. And also one of my very good friends actually buried her three-year old son. So, that was something too much to handle for everybody. So, this is the point where I started to seek some help from the psychology really.Mari-Liis Vaher (03:05):
And I ended up loving it more than I expected because I just wanted to understand things as life really can be unbearable sometimes, right? So, after a while in 2013, I started my second business together with my husband. And in 2015, the Institute of Marketing asked me to become a mentor to their students. And as you need to tell others what you know, you need to have a certain… Like a framework for that. So, this is where I first put together the long years of my own trial and error experience in marketing, sales leadership, and also included hundreds of books, articles, and resources I have read all the time and so on. So, I condensed really everything into one system with the five pillars to empower every marketer really to build their career and life with the dreams.Mari-Liis Vaher (04:16):
So, I also had a very good chance to practice everything that I was teaching at the same time because I was serving clients inside my own business. So, I helped many companies with marketing. And by doing it hands-on and working inside the companies with C-level and with also with the marketing teams, I started to realize that oftentimes the problems are not really inside the marketing. The problems come from lack of communication and from not understanding and leading our own emotions really because I already had studied psychology, right? So after a while, I came to realize that I am mostly working with helping marketers and business owners to understand each other really. And they became more grounded and started to see that affects themselves every day in making decisions. So, it really is the basis to put people to work toward the same goal without destructive emotions, assumptions, feelings, et cetera. So, as soon as people can see that as they start to work themselves into their superpower, as I like to say that, the success will really follow because being successful depends on your personal and professional growth. So, we are as a person are a whole. That’s the story.Stacy Jones (05:44):
And that’s great. And then everything you’re talking about, well, it’ll certainly apply to marketers, but it applies to any type of entrepreneur. It applies to probably your employees as well because mindset is such the controller over the backbone of how you approach life and how you approach your work.Mari-Liis Vaher (06:05):
I agree totally. And this is where we teach both marketers, how marketers can really take this responsibility across the company through communication skills, through improving their communication and leadership skills also. So, there is a chance to actually teach everybody inside your company to be aligned.
Stacy Jones (06:29):
So, what is the first step when you’re working with someone that you explore? What is the first thing that you sit down and say, “Okay. Let’s get down to the basics and talk about…”
Mari-Liis Vaher (06:41):
Yeah, we always taught with the mindset training. We always taught with where we were going and where we are today. So, it’s identity and purpose really. So, imagine if you’re driving a car, you can’t go from point A to point B without a goal or a map. So, imagine riding this car every day aimlessly, just rolling around, not knowing where we need to go. It runs out of gas and energy and you will be tired, you will be nervous. And the same happens to us every day inside the businesses. If we are just rolling around aimlessly, we are just putting out fires there.
Mari-Liis Vaher (07:24):
So, our minds really are built to seek the structure and rules because it gives us a feeling of safety as we all know that. So, this is also the reason why children need rules and boundaries. That’s really the same reason because when we grew up and move out from our parents’ house, first, we are so excited and we do all bunch of crazy things. And as soon as we will realize that we want some framework and we want some boundaries into our lives in order to achieve something, to have a family, to build a career. So, no one really feels safe to rally on or to party on as long as we live, right? And this is why we become stressed out. We feel excited if we don’t find the path and the boundary suitable for us [inaudible 00:08:15] the end. And as you don’t feel safe here, you can’t be confident in anything you do in your life. So, you are not sure if the decisions are right or if the road you choose is the right one for you.
Mari-Liis Vaher (08:30):
So, in our lives, we will always have different options to choose. You know the crossroads and it is much easier for us to make the decisions when we know where we are heading with this car of ours. And you want to be strong inside really and also outside, of course, to make sure you can handle this car and those crossroads, but you need to know where you’re going and why. And this is the reason why we at Powerful Marketers talk about the identity and purpose and about them major road blocks, which are anxiety, stress, and lack of confidence really. So, as you learn to deal with them, you are very well equipped for any situation in your life. Even if you don’t know what the obstacles will be or how to deal with them tomorrow, you can be sure that you have this inner strength to handle every situation. And you also come to realize as soon as you start to work with yourself here, you will have more energy and more willing power to help others around you. Yeah.
Stacy Jones (09:41):
It’s especially hard as a leader. So, in a company where you’re in charge of the marketing, you’re in charge of impacting sales, you’re in charge of making sure that everyone’s rowing in the right direction. If you’re not really strong enough yourself to be that power or that first line of defense, everything, I’m assuming, I know this from experience, everything does kind of go sideways. So, how do you work with people to start tearing that down and rebuilding it? What are those steps to that?
Mari-Liis Vaher (10:15):
Yeah, that’s a very good question. So, the first thing we need to… With what we are working is that others will benefit from you putting yourself first. So, you need to work with yourself, right? As you said, only then you will be empowered to help others around you, right? So, we start with… We call it MIP time, which is… MIP stands for most important person, which is you. So, you need to work first with yourself. And in order to be grounded, aligned, and calm and confident, you need to take time for yourself. You need to structure your own mind. You need to plan things. And this is where people often forget themselves. We’re just waking up in the morning, going there. We are like hamsters in a wheel, going crazy every day, doing everything. And we don’t take time for thinking, for planning, for free [inaudible 00:11:20] organizing our own thoughts and our marketing really.
Mari-Liis Vaher (11:24):
This is where we often see that people are making those bunch of decisions. “Okay, let’s go to this social media. Let’s do this. Let’s do this,” but they don’t feel this is not aligned with what they are freely aiming and what are the [inaudible 00:11:41]. So, that’s why you should start with actually taking time to plan and to think. So, that’s one of the most important things.
Stacy Jones (11:53):
Yeah, I know from experience myself that that is usually you as leader of an organization are the last one to come first. So, it’s a big shift for most people.
Mari-Liis Vaher (12:04):
Yeah, but you might want to think of the plane. You first have to put the oxygen mask to yourself always because only then you can help others. And same goes everywhere. This is in your personal life and also in your professional life. So, you cannot really empower others and give something to others if you don’t have this inner strength and you are not empowered yourself.
Stacy Jones (12:31):
And you haven’t refilled yourself where you’ve gotten sleep and you’ve gotten downtime and you’ve gotten pampering time so that you can actually reconnect with what your thoughts are versus just doing.
Mari-Liis Vaher (12:45):
Totally. Yeah. Even, I don’t know, 10 minutes per day is better than really nothing. So, it doesn’t have to take your… I don’t know, how many hours per day because people usually tell that, “Oh, I don’t have time for this.” You have time if you decide to really take it. It’s just a matter of your priorities, I would say.
Stacy Jones (13:08):
And reprioritizing yourself as first.
Mari-Liis Vaher (13:11):
Of course. You need to put yourself first up there. This is the only way you can help others and this is how you can turn yourself into your superpower really because we can’t expect anybody else offering us the opportunities in our lives. We need to work towards them, I believe.
Stacy Jones (13:34):
And so, after you have encouraged someone to carve out at least 10 minutes of time a day to ground yourself, to recenter, to align with your own personal goals, your work goals, and clear your head. What’s the next step to make sure that you’re operating with a marketer’s mindset?
Mari-Liis Vaher (13:54):
Yeah. The next thing we are working with is stress and anxiety really. So, we need to understand where it comes from. And we forget that stress is always there. That the whole life is about stress really. So, for the baby, even the birth is a stress. Also, the dying is a stress. Everything in between is also stress. We are moving from one obstacle to another constantly. So, what we need to understand is we need to acknowledge where the stress is coming from, where the anxiety is coming from. And there are many, many ways to help ourselves. Even the understanding itself already helps us with that. So, we know that, “Okay, this is where I’m thinking too much.” If you already discover yourself there and you realize that, “Oh my God. I’m getting this anxiety right now, what should I do? What should I do in my, I don’t know, everyday life?” Then already you can help yourself if you understand that you are stressing. You feel this way. And that’s totally fine to feel. Every feeling is okay. So, that’s the other thing that marketers should work with. They shouldn’t be afraid of their own feelings. They should understand where they come from and why and how they can really help themselves.
Stacy Jones (15:34):
And then after that, what else do marketers need to keep in mind?
Mari-Liis Vaher (15:40):
Yeah. After working with [inaudible 00:15:45]. No, they’re actually… The thing is that they’re not like [inaudible 00:15:50] one, two, three things. There are so many things actually, but the… Sorry.
Stacy Jones (15:57):
No, I’m sure there’s dozens of things you can do.
Mari-Liis Vaher (16:00):
Yeah. The next thing we are working with is actually the confidence. So, the very big reason why marketers are not performing in a way they would like to or they want to, is the lack of confidence, really. And if you really think of where the confidence is coming and on a daily basis where your self-esteem comes [inaudible 00:16:33]. There are many things like the way you overcome obstacles is one aspect that affects us. Then, of course, the way you adapt to changes is another thing that affects our self-esteem. We have all felt this during the time of pandemic, right? We were forced to adapt really.
Mari-Liis Vaher (16:58):
And other aspects that actually affect our self-esteem or the way you act in difficult or unfamiliar situations, and also the way you analyze and use information you have because the information overload is huge right now. So, this is the crazy things we all need to manage every day. Yeah, but usually it’s there as a roadblock for us is ourselves. So, we start to make excuses why we can’t do things even if we know we should be asking how we can do this thing instead, but there is so much… Sorry. There is so much stress around us every day that takes all the energy away. So, we don’t even want to figure out how to help ourselves. So, yeah. This is something you need to handle and it’s not really hard. So, in terms of self-confidence, this is… If I have to say what confidence is then I would say that confidence is a miracle that happens to you when you make those right decisions to work with it. Changing those long held beliefs about yourself and your reactions to others is just one part of the equation, let’s say.
Mari-Liis Vaher (18:27):
So, the confidence really is built from inside out and you need to know that there is inner work that the same times with yourself, the MIP meetings as we call this. There might be, I don’t know, meditation, therapy, coaching, some trainings. There are a lot of things you can do with yourself to strengthen yourself. And there is also those external things [inaudible 00:19:03]. External things you can do like engaging new activities, going to network, getting out of your comfort zone as frequently as possible, spending time in a positive and supportive environment. Those inspiring people around you. And so, what I want to say is that confidence is a learnable behavior and mindset. So, it’s a matter of discovering really the best tools and resources to help yourself develop it.
Stacy Jones (19:36):
One of the biggest things, I think, that hits anyone who is in a leadership position and who is in a decision-making position is the impostor syndrome where you don’t necessarily feel that you do have the skills, the knowledge, the tools, the ability to actually continue to triumph over the day and lead everyone behind you forth. And I know that’s something that really can impact marketers because as a marketer, you have to be nimble. You have to be able to be reactive while also being very proactive and not really stuck in doing the same tried and day in, day out. So, you have to be a risk taker as a marketer to a small degree. You can work with things that provide you low risk that are tried and true, but you have to continually invent to propel yourself forward and propel your company forward and to give your team members that extra bit of energy also and insights and learning and tools. So, that’s a lot for a marketer to have to take on.
Mari-Liis Vaher (20:42):
Yeah, totally. The imposter syndrome is only one way for us to understand that, “Okay. There’s a lack of confidence issue in us.” So for us, it’s a sign already. So, you need to work with yourself.
Stacy Jones (20:58):
They need to pop up. It can be a surprise. Pop up in strangest times where you can be a marketer who’s on the top of the world and all of a sudden you can just let a little bit of doubt get in your head that you have to then squish down.
Mari-Liis Vaher (21:10):
But you know what helps here? Honesty and acknowledging. I mean, if you’re in this situation, you should… Only brave people can tell that, “Okay. I don’t know the answer to this, but I am ready to figure out how to do this. So, I will come back to this.” The problem is we don’t have this inner strength to really say that, “Okay. I don’t know this,” but it’s not… You can’t tell that you don’t know anything in this world that you shouldn’t. So, that’s the inner strength I’m talking about. You get my point? I hope.
Stacy Jones (21:48):
I totally get your point. I think a lot of times you have to find that inner strength, but in life you also have to live it. Even if it’s not your true self, you embrace it and I’m not saying pretend, but a little bit put yourself in the role that you know what you’re doing and let it come together as a marketer because everything is not spelled out. There is no tried and true that will work every time across everything. So, you’re always going to be bringing a little element of the unknown and just taking risk and taking chances and going with your gut instinct and trying.
Mari-Liis Vaher (22:27):
Totally agree. And that’s why we at Powerful Marketers are also telling that as soon as you have the inner strength, you know that, “Okay. I am well equipped. Whatever comes tomorrow, I am ready for this. Bring it on because I know that I am working with myself every day and I am ready for this.” So, I want to maybe bring out the four, I would say, main things that are in our [inaudible 00:22:57]. So, if you really think the first thing is unbalanced lifestyle. So, think for a moment. What we teach inside the program is the 888 principle, which means that in ideal life, we should have eight hours for work, eight hours for sleep and eight hours for the things that you feel joy in life; recreation, being with your family and those things. So, the unbalanced lifestyle is number one reason why we are not ready and we are not well equipped. This is a very important part.
Mari-Liis Vaher (23:34):
The other thing are the distractions. So, again, we come back to the MIP time for focusing. You need to plan in thinking process and book this non-negotiable time slots in your calendar to be organized, to be, again, well equipped professionally. So, another thing is information overload, but it’s everywhere, right? But what we should do is we should understand, is this information, is it somebody’s opinion or is it a fact really? It depends really. If you plan the thinking process and book those MIP times, you will already understand that, “Okay. Maybe I shouldn’t take this information and maybe I should go for this.” You have time for that.
Mari-Liis Vaher (24:25):
And another thing which is very important for the marketers to work with is any addictive disorder, really? So, there is work addiction. There might be holding a destructive relationship or drugs, alcohol, social media. If you’re constantly scrolling on social media or constantly eating too much or you’re constantly eating too healthy or unhealthy because anything that is too extreme is not balanced, right? So, apart from all these, it’s possible that you have a dependency on anything else in your life that is effectively [inaudible 00:25:08], keeps you from moving up in your career. So, there are things that you should be aware of that you should work with in order to strengthen yourself. And why we should do this really is that you cannot grow in your career or professionally if you have those issues with what I just like… The points that I just gave.
Stacy Jones (25:41):
So, in regards to 888, you have eight hours of work, eight hours of sleep, eight hours of your personal life, your family, your me time, your recharge and get your energy back. So, if you are on the side of 16 hours work, six hours sleep, two hours self, whatever that might be, or worse than that, how do you start acclimating? How do you start adjusting? Because you can’t go from zero to 90 and manage to figure it out overnight. It’s going to take habits of change and a different approach, but how would you counsel someone who is overworking and not getting enough of those other benefits in their life?
Mari-Liis Vaher (26:29):
Yeah, we will always start with the little wins. With the very little wins, it might be even by, I don’t know, 15 minutes or 30 minutes. But really the struggle here is this task management or the time management professionally because this is what I see. When you work too much, then you feel guilty because you don’t spend time with your family and you don’t spend time with yourself, but at the same time as you go home after eight hours, you feel again guilty because you know that, “Okay. I should have finished this and I should have sent this email and another email.” That’s the problem. You will not be able anymore to put yourself into another role without-
Stacy Jones (27:23):
Mari-Liis Vaher (27:23):
… any gift. Exactly. So, that’s a problem really. So, it cannot be very… The change is not quick. Never here. It has to be little steps. And at first it will all start with your load of tasks you have on your table and prioritizing them and delegating as much as possible. Those things that comes through with the time management, really. And I have seen people are amazed themselves as they start to emphasize more the recreation time because this is really the… It is proven that as you rest, then you will be more creative. You will have more ideas. You know that. And I see you’re agreeing with me.
Stacy Jones (28:22):
Mari-Liis Vaher (28:22):
Yeah, we all know that, but why don’t we do that? So, we are the ones who are responsible for our own time, and we need to be there [inaudible 00:28:31] say, “Okay, stop. I’m not working right now. That’s my recreation time because I know that’s good for me. And I know that on Monday morning, I will be so loaded. I will be full of inspiration. I will motivate others. I will rock this world,” and you will. So, yeah. You just need to realize at one point that, “Okay. I should work with this.” Of course, I know we all have had those times when we work like crazy and so [inaudible 00:29:03]. And nothing really happens if you’re, I don’t know, in your 20s, right? So, we also have this communication module where we teach about what happens with us when we grow older. And that’s a very good point here because people between, let’s say, roughly 24 to 40 years old can take a sort of loan out of the eight hours of sleep and/or recreation as they tend to make more commitments, right? And therefore they need to spend more time on their obligations oftentimes. If you’re…
Stacy Jones (29:50):
Personal is important. You’re trying to date, you’re trying to be out there, you’re trying to make friends.
Mari-Liis Vaher (29:55):
Yeah. Yeah. And you [crosstalk 00:29:55] have energy, and you’re young.
Stacy Jones (29:58):
And a career.
Mari-Liis Vaher (29:59):
So, that’s totally fine. And if you’re younger or older then however, you will pay for this loan with your health later. So, that might be an issue. We don’t realize this when we are 25, but after we are 40 years old, we become to have different problems with our health and we don’t realize that, “Okay. How does this affects us?” Because when a young person’s balance is out of order, nothing much happens immediately, right? But the setbacks come when they get beyond 40. So, this means if you don’t get enough rest in your 20s, 30s, make no mistake, health problems will arise. And your body will not forgive you as it used to. So, those are those minor thing, actually, that we don’t realize as we’re younger.
Stacy Jones (30:53):
And as a minor, very important actually, is that you only have one life. And one opportunity to actually live it.
Mari-Liis Vaher (31:00):
Yeah, totally. So, we should think about this and this 888 principle can really help you regain control of your professional and personal life. So, of course, if you put some ongoing effort into this, and this is really important part of actually everybody’s lives, especially a marketer’s life. I know how crazy it might be, but yeah. This is why I’m here helping them.
Stacy Jones (31:32):
And that’s good. And so, that’s a great time for me to say. So, how can our listeners find out more about you? How can they get in contact with you?
Mari-Liis Vaher (31:40):
Yeah. They can go to powerfulmarketers.com. I’m sorry. It’s powerful-marketers.com.
Stacy Jones (31:49):
[inaudible 00:31:49] so, just in case anyone forgets, they can go to the show notes on the podcast.
Mari-Liis Vaher (31:56):
Yes. And of course, I am there in social media. So, you can connect me over LinkedIn, on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter. I’m happy to have those discussions.
Stacy Jones (32:12):
That is awesome. And you’ve been super helpful with shedding the light on how things may go wrong if you can’t figure out how [inaudible 00:32:20] the balance of the 888 and the importance of making sure as a marketer that you have the energy so that you can find the resources within yourself to lead your team. So, any other parting last words of insight that you’d like to share with our audience today?
Mari-Liis Vaher (32:44):
Well, please do keep in mind that others around you will benefit from you if you are putting yourself first. So, I think that’s the most important thing I want to say because all the other skills we are teaching at Powerful Marketers, you can learn them also from other places if you go through all the books and studies and everything I have gone through, but you need to really start thinking about yourself first because you are the most important person in your life, so just own it.
Stacy Jones (33:18):
And those are great words of advice that everyone could learn to use a little bit more in their life.
Mari-Liis Vaher (33:26):
Stacy Jones (33:28):
Mari-Liis, thank you so much for joining us today. I learned a lot. I’m not sure I’ve learned so much besides the fact that you reinforced things that I have heard and known and that I tend to not pay attention to. So, thank you for that. And-
Mari-Liis Vaher (33:45):
Stacy Jones (33:46):
… that is something that I think is even more important for everyone is to be able to take this [inaudible 00:33:52]-
Mari-Liis Vaher (33:51):
It’s just a good reminder to everybody. Of course, we knew those things, but we forget sometimes to emphasize them and to understand that, “Okay. I should be the most important person because…” Yeah, that’s the way it is.
Stacy Jones (34:06):
Well, I think that…
Mari-Liis Vaher (34:08):
I hope it is helpful to [inaudible 00:34:10].
Stacy Jones (34:10):
Oh, I think it’s extremely helpful, but I also think that especially… And I’m not trying to… Not putting consideration 50% of the population, but for women, especially, who are so torn between families and business. The first thing that they’re going to do is let themselves not have that core support. That’s the first thing to go. And it happens with men as well, of course, but women are a little bit different when they’re put in leadership roles where they tend to not delegate as well where they tend to try to do it all themselves. And when you’re juggling and you’re trying to get everything done under the Sun, it’s hard to be good at any of it in order to have the resources and energy to actually recharge-
Mari-Liis Vaher (34:58):
Stacy Jones (34:59):
… so that you can troubleshoot and out-think and be an inspiration to those who are working alongside you.
Mari-Liis Vaher (35:08):
I couldn’t agree with you more because this is the struggle for myself every day because I have also two kids and a husband and the personal life and the professional life, but it is doable if you only want to. So, for example, for myself, I use this morning hours because this is the time where the world is quiet. Nobody is asking for anybody from me. So, what I do… One technique we also teach inside the program is those morning sabers by Hal Elrod. So, I have practicing it, I don’t know, seven years by now, I think. So, I wake up every morning, 5:00 AM. I have two hours for myself. I go for a walk. I do my yoga, I have my meditation. So, I write journal and I do not touch any this electronical devices at all. So, I’m just being with myself because I know that I need to be aligned. I need to be ready for this day because my days are also crazy, right? And I totally feel those women everywhere out there, so they’re taking more than they can really handle. As I said, it sounds very rough or not very… I don’t find the word right now, but…
Stacy Jones (36:29):
It seems basic, but people who don’t manage to put the importance and emphasis on how much it doesn’t hurt you.
Mari-Liis Vaher (36:36):
Exactly. And later you will pay with your health, unfortunately. So, that’s the pity. And we want to be also those inspiring women as we become 40 and 50 and 60. So, yeah. And that’s why we should work with ourselves.
Stacy Jones (36:54):
Well, Mari-Liss, thank you again for joining us. We really appreciate-
Mari-Liis Vaher (36:56):
Thank you for having me.
Stacy Jones (36:56):
Mari-Liis Vaher (36:58):
I hope it will be helpful. I enjoyed that too.
Stacy Jones (37:00):
It will be very helpful for many.
Mari-Liis Vaher (37:02):
Stacy Jones (37:04):
And for all of our listeners, thank you for tuning into Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them) today. I look forward to chatting with you next week. Thank you all.
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