In this episode, Stacy sits down with business strategist, author, podcaster, CEO and founder of Boss Mom, Dana Malstaff. The two discuss exactly how Dana has used her experience as an influencer to share insights on building “human” and successful influencer campaigns, from free to paid.

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Transcripts:

Stacy: 00:00
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes & How To Avoid Them. I’m Stacy Jones, the founder of influencer marketing and branded content agency Hollywood Branded. This podcast provides brand marketers a learning platform for top experts to share their insights and knowledge on topics which make a direct impact on your business today. While it is impossible to be well versed on every topic and strategy that can improve bottom line results, my goal is to help you avoid making costly mistakes of time, energy, or money, whether you were doing a DIY approach or hiring an expert to help. Let’s begin today’s discussion.Speaker 2: 00:31
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes & How To Avoid Them. Here’s your host, Stacy Jones.Stacy: 00:35
Welcome to marketing steaks and how to avoid them. I’m Stacy Jones and I’m so happy to be here with you all today and want to give a very warm welcome to Dana Malstaff, CEO and founder of Boss Mom.Stacy: 00:46
She’s a mother, author, speaker, a business strategist, podcast or blind spot reducer and movement maker. She launched the Boss Mom brand with her first book, Boss Mom: The Ultimate Guide to Raising a Business & Nurturing Your Family Like a Pro and quickly grew to a six figure business within a year. She now not only has her own blog and social platforms and podcast, but also over 20,000 students and various courses designed to help women raise their businesses and babies at the same time. Today we’re going to share some insights to brands from the perspective, Dana’s experience as an influencer and also about how to establish yourself as a known brand. We’ll learn what’s worked from her experience, what maybe could be avoided and where people are missing the mark. Dana, everyone listening, you have to understand her name is not Dana. It is Dana.Dana: 01:29
I think it just, it’s good because since nobody pronounces it Dana, you know, it’s spelled like Dana. It just, it makes it easiest for us to laugh a little bit before we start. So we’re all already friends.

Stacy: 01:42
Exactly. There we have it. Well, you know that Matt Johnson, who’s been on my podcast, he suggested I speak with you. He could not stop raving about you and the exact words, because I wrote it down. He said, “You are one of the sharpest marketing minds he knows.” So that is a phenomenal compliment to be given by someone. And I’m so excited to have you here today chatting and sharing that marketing mind with all of our listeners to learn a little bit more behind the screen of what it’s like to be an influencer and where you can go wrong plus so much more advice you have. Could you start off sharing how you got started and what got you to where you are today?

Dana: 02:25
Yeah, sure. Although I feel like Matt should have just like kept the expectations low so then I can really blow everybody out of the water. Now I feel like I’ve got a lot to live up to, so let’s see if I can handle it. Yeah, so like probably many people, had a job once where somebody told me what to do. And I was pretty good at it. I was up to the director director level, good six figure business. Decided I wanted to quit. There was a shift in the business. And so I decided now’s my time to quit. The last that I had my job, everybody took me out, got me drunk and I got pregnant with my husband. I was married at the time.

Stacy: 03:07
Good to add in that with your husband [crosstalk 00:03:09].

Dana: 03:10
We had been trying to have a baby and we weren’t having any luck. I worked 14 hour days and really stressed out from business and as soon as I quit, I think my body was like, oh, okay, so you’ve got some free time. We should probably have children now. And I found myself in the situation where I was a mom and an entrepreneur, had no idea how to do either one and wanted to be great at both. And that’s very, very stressful. I also wanted to do both. I just, I never had, I was really stressed out because I never wanted to be a stay at home mom. I always knew that my brain needed to be stimulated a lot, and I wanted to create things and do things and engage with things. I’m an extrovert, so hanging around with just me and a baby all day was not really a good option too if I wanted to stay sane.

Dana: 03:58
Then flooded in the guilt, the fact that I wanted my son to go to daycare so I could get some work done at home and being a work at home mom and send my kid off to daycare, everybody thought I was crazy where I lived because I had no friends that had their own business and I had no friends that had babies yet. So I fast forward a few months from then. Actually my son was only five months when we decided to move back to San Diego where I’m originally from and my mom and my stepdad live, to be closer to them and this amazing world opened up where there were tons of moms that had businesses and there were tons of just people that had businesses. There were entrepreneurs, support groups and all of a sudden I had these friends that were like, oh no, you’re not crazy.

Dana: 04:40
There are tons of us there, there are tons of us, there’s tons of women who have their babies at home that homeschool their babies and still want a job. And so all of a sudden I just stopped feeling so crazy and I decided that I needed to write. I always wanted to write a book. So I was a journalism major, but I decided I wanted to write a book because there was a book coach and a mastermind that I was in. And he was like, if anybody wants to write a book, go ahead. His name’s is [Altrueness 00:05:06] and after he helped me with my book, he helped Pat Flynn write his book. So I’d like to say I came first.

Stacy: 05:13
You did come first. Yes.

Dana: 05:16
Yeah, and so I decided to write this book and what I thought I was going to write was about content strategy. What I ended up writing about was Boss Mom. Was about this idea that we are big, beautiful minded women that are yearning to create amazing things in the world and that it doesn’t make us less of a parent or less of a loving mother to accomplish more than just motherhood. And then gave tactical tools on how to do that. And it just, it went really, really well, and I think with entrepreneurialism just the same thing with marketing, like 80% of what we do doesn’t work, right. Success in realizing when there’s the 20% and then fanning the flame. The book did really well. So we fanned the flame, we started the podcast, we started the Facebook group. Those just kept working. I pitched myself on every podcast I could possibly imagine. That was my very first hire was somebody to pitch me on podcasts.

Dana: 06:07
Got on every podcast, made strategic connections and just worked for about six months hustling to get everybody to know that this brand existed. And then from there, opened up a group coaching program. I had already made some money doing… just making small courses on Udemy and they just started leveraging everything, scaling everything. And that was four years ago and now the Facebook group is 37,000. I get asked to speak all over the place. I just came out with my third book at the end of last year, and yeah, we got all sorts of things going, so we just basically we just [inaudible 00:06:46] Boss Mom on everything you can possibly Boss Mom.

Stacy: 06:49
Well you obviously are the boss mom, so that makes sense. That is a phenomenal journey in a very short period of time.

Dana: 06:56
Yeah. Well that’s… it’s so funny. The third book I wrote, which is it’s called Climb Your Own Ladder: Become the CEO of Your Own Business. That’s one of the main points is that we leave corporate America and if you were in corporate, people have 20 year plans, right? When we get out, we start our own business six months in, and we’re like, how am I not a millionaire? I must be failing at this. Why don’t I have 100,000 followers on Instagram? What am I doing wrong? And you’re like, well, most of the world doesn’t work that fast. There’s these anomalies that happen, but that’s not the norm, you know? So yeah. I tell people it takes five years for the government for you to not be profitable for five years before the government’s like, all right, we’ve got to talk about whether this is a business or not.

Dana: 07:41
So if you’re making money, doing well after five years or before five years, yeah, I’d say you’re doing pretty good.

Stacy: 07:47
Is this where you would have thought you would have ended up at all or was it complete blind luck? Not Luck, hard work, but just an opportunity that just kept on opening doors, and you didn’t know this path is in front of you, or did you have this kind of vision beforehand?

Dana: 08:03
Well, I think yes and no. So I was a broadcast journalism major. I wanted to be a news anchor. And then I studied abroad and realized I wasn’t a fan of American news at all. Came back, didn’t know what I was going to do, and then started this other journey. I always knew I did my internship at a radio station. So I always knew I wanted to do something that was media related.

Dana: 08:24
When I started a podcast, it just felt natural, and I loved it. Getting featured in places. I always knew I wanted to be featured in places. Like I want to be on the cover of a magazine. I want to be known in my space. I don’t need to be famous. I just want to be known in my space and respected in my space. I knew that I wanted to be an expert in something and sought after. Because I love the idea of… when I was in my 20s I loved the idea of CEO’s keeping me on retainer to help them solve problems. That was in my dreams.

Dana: 08:53
That idea of getting asked to speak on stage, which I love to do, and being an influencer in that space, I didn’t realize that this is how it would come to fruition. I didn’t realize that being a mom would be a part of how that journey came about. But I do think a lot of what I do on a day to day basis now really serves the gifts that I have and what makes me happy, and interacting with people and being helpful and impactful and also growing something that I can be known for. I think all those things were kind of already on my list.

Stacy: 09:26
Okay. That’s fair enough. You obviously put it out to the universe, and it delivered in ways you were not planning on.

Dana: 09:31
Well, that’s usually how it works.

Stacy: 09:32
Yes, it does. So on your journey, you’ve become a true influencer, and for all the brands are out there, they always love partnering with influencers. Right? You like having someone who is known within their space, who can be an advocate, who can bring light and life to your brand. And you yourself have been working with a number of brands now over the years. And I have a feeling, you know, what some brands do really well and what some brands do really poorly. And I’d love to have our conversation go into where brands sometimes miss that mark of partnering with influencers and get your take on that.

Dana: 10:13
Yeah. Yeah. So, I think when we’re looking to do partnerships, one is we forget that we’re all human beings, right? So the biggest thing is, is that the strongest partnerships that I have are based around human connection, not around the tool and what the tool does or what your business is and what you do. It’s based around whether or not I like you, and from a branding perspective, people like your brand based on whether or not they like you, the know like, and trust factor, people didn’t make that up. That’s a real thing. They’re not going to buy from you if they don’t trust you. They’re not going to hang around with you and listen to your training videos or use your program if they don’t like you. I mean, businesses have crumbled because CEOs have done things that we didn’t think aligned with what we thought the brand was.

Dana: 10:59
So one of the biggest mistakes I think people make is trying to be so professional that they stop being human.

Stacy: 11:06
They’re not relatable anymore.

Dana: 11:07
Then they’re reaching out and trying to connect with people in this way. Yeah. They go out and they’re… I don’t want to be seen at as just an influencer. I’m a person that has a personality and I want to have fun conversations. So when I worked with brands, so Thinkific is it actual program, course creation program and it’s a brand that I work with. That entire relationship started because they reached out to me and said, “Hey, we really love what you’re doing and we would love to have you on our show.” Right? So that’s why I love podcasting ’cause some of the best collaborations I’ve had is being featured or having people on my show where we go, oh we had some great banter.

Dana: 11:46
We really liked each other. I like what you were talking about. Let’s learn about each other. So it’s like a sort of planned conversation. So from a branding perspective, one of the mistakes you can make is not going out and getting featured as much as humanly possible and connecting with people who have platforms like this ’cause that’s the best way to get in the door without creating the partnership first. And then I think one of the other things too is really understanding how it aligns with the person and what they’re trying to achieve. ‘Cause I get pitched stuff all the time from brands that are products and services and people in their courses, and all these sorts of things. And the ones that never hit are the ones where I can tell they actually have no idea what my brand is about.

Dana: 12:31
Where there is no alignment there, and they’ve made no effort to make any alignment because, I’m only as much of an influencer is my audience allows me to be. I could stop being an influencer tomorrow if my audience stopped loving me in the way they do or caring about my opinion. Because influence is simply the ability to get people to do something that you want them to do, right? I’m influencing their decisions, their path, their choices, who they hang out with, all those kinds of things. They’re trusting me with that. I can lose that really, really quickly. So influencers guard very safely their influence, right? Because if if I do something that misaligns, it’s going to throw people off. And if I lose that trust, I lose the influence. So if somebody comes to me, and they don’t know what the essence of my brand is, and they’ve never been in my community, and to be honest if they’re not a mom, and they’re not a woman, I don’t push them away, but I want to understand, do you know my brand?

Dana: 13:26
Like Tailwind, actually Tailwind is a funny one. Danny, their CEO tried to get into my Facebook group, and it was in the earlier stage. We were only maybe a couple thousand people in the group. I was like-

Stacy: 13:42
You’re not a mom and you’re a man.

Dana: 13:43
You’re not a mom. But then I looked him up, and I found out he was a CEO of Tailwind. So, Daniel, I said, “Hey, do you want to tell me your intentions with the with the group.” We got on a call, we started having a conversation, and I learned about his family, and what he was doing, and about his brand and what they cared about, which is what we cared about. And I’ve now had a multi year, they’ve sponsored every single event I’ve had.

Dana: 14:07
They’re amazing. And we connect. I started the Boss Dad podcasts last year, and he got to the Boss Dad podcast. It’s just a really good relationship because there is an alignment there, and we were human beings together telling each other stories about how we could connect. And I think that’s a big thing is from a one brand to another, understand what they actually care about and how you can be more human and connect on a human level. And then once you create that trust, people will bend over backwards. Influencers will bend over backwards to get help you out and do what you want.

Dana: 14:39
Now the only other alternative to that is if they’re not somebody that you can touch, is just to make sure you’re going after people that are so incredibly aligned with what you’re doing or need what you have or that it’s such high end or beautiful or amazing or Instagramable that you just hope that they love whatever you made on the merit for whatever it is, if it’s a product and then you get lucky sometimes and though you can ride on the coattails.

Stacy: 15:04
And have you found that the brand relationships you’ve created have been these authentic relationship based where the trust is there at the brand with you. So you build that from the very beginning versus having the brand be concerned and wanting to safeguard themselves. And, that’s one of the biggest things that I think we see with clients sometimes where brands are afraid to drop that boundary, that protection, that inside the box and actually breathe and be, and let the influencer, as you said earlier, have some fun, be authentic, be real with them.

Dana: 15:45
Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s… I mean, the trust has to happen both ways. And I think that you did that real good brands that understand that they’re leveraging people, that we’re all businesses, people, that we scratch each other’s back. We do things for each other, so it’s… one of the things when I was in corporate, I remember somebody telling me I had an employee and they were doing their job. They weren’t doing any more than their job, but they were doing their job well. And I wanted to reward them for that. And they told me that, why would you do that? Like they’re getting paid. The reward is that they get to have a job, right? And that really sat with me like, that’s not the life I want to live.

Dana: 16:28
Yeah, they have a job and you’re paying them to do something. They don’t have to like it. They don’t have to care about you. They don’t have to bring a smile to work. They don’t have to do it really, really as well as they could ’cause it’s sometimes that’s like, it’s hard to tell. I don’t want to live in that world. I want to live in a world where we continually want to raise each other up. There’s gratitude for the things that we do for each other and excitement. And we’re always finding ways to help each other. And if you’re a brand that thinks that way about the people you want to collaborate with and the brands that you want to collaborate with, it’s going to be an amazing world for you. Because, for instance, Thinkific, whenever they’re doing an article, they call me and say, “Hey, give me a quote and we’ll put you in.”

Dana: 17:09
Now you’re featured in all these places, right? And they contribute to Huffington Post. I remember they said that somebody wrote an article with a collaborator of mine that then reached out and was like, “Hey, I’m going to put you in this article.” And it was the top ’17 or top women entrepreneurs to look out for in 2017, and I was on the list. Whether or not I should have been on that list or not, didn’t matter because I had created a good connection with an influencer who liked me enough to put me on that list and they had the influence.

Dana: 17:41
And that’s the thing is, is all these things that we get on these collaborations that we have are all people just scratching each other’s back. Like me being an influencer and liking a brand and using it, and then need, this is one level than me deciding to actually tell everybody about it is a second level and then me actually deciding to integrate it into what I do in my business to make sure everybody always knows.

Dana: 18:01
Like that’s a third level and you can have somebody that says, “Oh, I want to collaborate with you and I love it.” Or oh, I want your product or whatever. And then they never use it. They sit on it and they never tell anybody about it. That doesn’t do you any good. So it helps that recognizing that it’s always a reciprocal relationship. Whether them just using your product isn’t enough. You have to also show if it’s somebody you really want to collaborate with, then you have to show that there is this ongoing building relationship happening where you help each other, you pin each other on things, you tag each other on stuff. You tell each other, tell your audience how awesome they are. Even if they’re not promoting you that day. Those kinds of things, then that’s what builds that trust in that relationship and breaking down those barriers.

Stacy: 18:46
Yeah, and we see it so often where we’ll even do a social media campaign and partnership with influencers for a client and then having to encourage the client to actually share and repost.

Dana: 18:57
Oh, yeah.

Stacy: 18:57
And like, and comment on what that influenced or has actually said about them. It’s like pulling teeth sometimes because I think brands oftentimes have this feeling that, influencers just like buying media, you pay for it and you’re in that magazine, which is online in their social feed and you’re done. Instead of it being what you’re talking about being back and forth and more of a reciprocal relationship that is bettering and benefiting each.

Dana: 19:27
Yeah. When I go back to us being human beings, we want to feel special. I talked about at Social Media Marketing World Night, my talk was about building sustainable communities and Facebook groups. But the ultimate thing is, is that people want to feel like they’re valued and they’re valuable. They want to feel safe. And if you give them those two things, then you create loyalty. And if you can create loyalty, then people will bend over backwards and jump through flames and fight battles to make sure that you are taking care of. And when I’m building online community and building… helping micro influencers. So the people that are in my space, part of my job is to make those, raise those people up. We want Boss Mom to be a jumping off point, a catalyst for women in business.

Dana: 20:14
Especially moms in business and so it’s my job to help raise those people up and even when I’m working with collaborators that are big brands, that’s the other thing too is it’s just the same thing. They need to feel valued. Like I actually care and I need to feel like they actually care. I need to feel safe. Like I’m working with a product that I trust and they’re working with an influencer that they trust. And between those two things, then you could just create loyalty where I will tell everybody under the sun, “No, you got to think if it can you go to Tailwind.” Those are the two ones where I’ve built such strong relationships with them that it doesn’t matter. Those will always be my answers and there’s no way to sway me from it.

Dana: 20:53
I don’t care what what comes out, I will always tell if you’re starting a business and you’re going to create a course, this is where you go. And I think, that’s the big thing to think about is we should be, if we really want good collaborations, we shouldn’t be thinking about one off campaigns. We should be thinking about long-term relationships. And if it’s something where you’re thinking about a one off campaign, then that’s just something different than actually building a relationship that you want ongoing with an influencer.

Stacy: 21:20
That’s just a content play and you’re trying to get out there and in front of as many people as possible. We’re [inaudible 00:21:26] not a longterm plan in place because once that Instagram feed scrolls down a little bit, you’re gone. It was literally just that moment.

Dana: 21:34
That’s very true. It’s very true.

Stacy: 21:37
Where have you seen brands make big flashy mistakes besides not authentic relationship building? Have you seen or encountered and don’t have to talk specific brand, but any experience where it’s just been like the worst thing someone could have actually done on approach?

Dana: 21:55
Well, I think it definitely comes down to knowing your audience. I’ve seen some big brands do, some advertising plays where they thought it would work. Like they thought the story they were telling would work and it really just insults everybody. I see this a lot just from marketing from a lot of people were the words that people use they think is going to work to their advantage or the video that they use, or the visuals that they use. And they don’t realize that those things can really matter. That the way you phrase something, can really make somebody feel bad or feel offended in a lot of ways. And I think that’s one of the biggest mistakes that people make is they don’t recognize the power of the way they’re using their words and the way they using their video.

Dana: 22:52
I think we create so much content nowadays that people don’t actually see it as being long term content, but the effects of one post that’s really horrible can be long lasting. So just because that one Instagram goes away, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t go viral in a bad way for you? So you always got to think about the words you’re using, and the way you’re exuding your brand ’cause we’re also living in a world right now that loves to get offended. They want to. They want to find reasons to be upset with things. It’s like this strange space where they either want to love a post or hate a post. I’d love a commercial or an ad, I hate a commercial and ad, and we all want to go viral and have that work to our advantage, but sometimes it does the opposite.

Dana: 23:47
The one other thing I will say too about brands that are doing things. So a lot of like YouTubers and different things like that that I will see, put out content that’s meant really to blow up is they blow up in this, an ad or a video or a piece of content that does really, really, really well. Only problem is it does really, really well not for their ideal client. So now all of a sudden they have this huge audience, which sounds all super snazzy except for now the only way to make money is to sell something that they didn’t want to sell to this audience they don’t really care about. And that’s a huge mistake. So don’t think that all content and all publicity is good publicity if it’s leading all the wrong people back to your brand.

Stacy: 24:31
Sure. And I think many of brand has actually found themselves in the struggle of the consumer that they actually have purchasing was not the one they set up to. Yeah. And it’s not necessarily as profitable and they’re making a little lack of dollars on the side versus the original intent.

Dana: 24:48
Yeah. And that’s a funny thing. It’s really, marketing is about getting people to make decisions and usually that’s investing in your business. You want to build, be the billboard that builds clout and excitement and knowledge and then so that people think about you and buy your stuff and share your stuff and all that kind of thing. So it really comes down to helping you grow your business financially. I think people are so busy nowadays being excited about the visual part, the marketing part about how they’re growing their business, how many followers they have, what their ad spent was what they were doing. Like their conversion rates. That I feel like the actual number of profitable businesses in the online space is probably a very small margin if we really looked at it because I think people are caring about the wrong thing.

Dana: 25:35
They’re not building good systems in the backend to actually sell for them. And they’re spending a lot of their time on marketing tactics that are fly by night marketing tactics without having real good plans in place, in campaigns in place that they can replicate and see what worked and didn’t work and tweak based on that. Everybody thinks that social media is a thing we just get on and do and that all the influencers are just that they’re just built born like that. But real successful influencers and entrepreneurs have systems and have a systematic way that they do something, assess something, get rid of things, you know, refine things and grow things and it’s well organized on the back end whereas it falls and crumbles and we all feel overwhelmed and burnt out.

Stacy: 26:21
Yeah. And that’s the biggest reason why partnering with an influencer can be so great. Who knows their stuff because they know how to create all this awesome content. Now, if they’re doing videos or still images, they are still are the director or the photographer. Oftentimes the model, the copywriter, the content guru of all of it, they are the creative teams, but they also are realizing how to engage with that audience that is so close to them. And that’s what you’re buying into as a brand is that fact that they know how, you know how to create those partnerships and bring them to life and keep people staying engaged.

Dana: 27:02
Absolutely. Yeah. I completely agree. And I think the more people think of it that way, the better relationships people will have.
Stacy: 27:10 Right? Versus, “Oh, I’m just going to slap my brand in there. They’re going to do a call out and it’s all done.” And it takes no time. It didn’t take them four or six or 12 hours to create that content. Who cares about that.

Dana: 27:23
Yeah. Yeah. It’s… why not. And I tell everybody that nobody cares more about your business succeeding than you. So if you’re a brand that you want to reach out to influencers, it doesn’t matter. If you pay that influencer. You need to give them all the tools to make their life as easy as possible to promote you because they have a bunch of other people that want to pay them and do them and you don’t want them doing the minimum. You want them really getting excited about who you are and what you do and the more information you give them that’s real. Like we were talking about just the more even information about your company’s story and what it is and fun things to know the more ammo they have and really good influencers can use that ammo to create really vibrant stories. That is what gets everybody excited and engaged and then moving over to your brand.

Stacy: 28:11
Yeah. Well on a separate topic, you have done a phenomenal job of building your own brand as the entrepreneur, as the head of your company and for other entrepreneurs that are out there, other people who are building their brands, who maybe have forgotten about the fact that they need to build their own brand at the same time. Talk a little bit about that and what, you know, some of the foundational needs are there for people to start casting themselves in a light as their own future influencer.

Dana: 28:42
Yeah. So, the first thing I usually tell people to do is what we call your movement manifesto. So your movement manifesto is a manifesto back in the day. It was political. So a politician would get up and they would tell everybody what they believed in, and if you believed in the same things, then you would vote for them. And it’s the same thing from a brand perspective is we think a lot about brand as what my logo is and what my colors are and what my imagery is and those kinds of things. But a brand is a personality. A brand is very much like a personification of what you want people to think and feel and experience when they’re using your products and services or hanging out with you or in your space. And so doing something like a movement manifesto is, so it’s four basic questions that you’d walk through.

Dana: 29:29
And you’d say, I believe dot, dot, dot. I want to live in a world where, this is what I know to be true. And there’s a fourth one that I’ll think of by the time we get to it. And the idea is when you go through it, you think about things not from what you’re selling, right? ‘Cause we all sell stuff, right? But that’s not what sells it. Every so often there’s something that comes out that fits such a per in need so perfectly that it could have terrible marketing and still sell. But most of the time that’s not the case. ‘Cause we all have competitors. There’s thousands of other coaches, there’s thousands of other products, thousand of other brands, right? So when you think about, I believe. When you think about the simplest things, like I believe I should be able to take my son to school and come home and work, right?

Dana: 30:10
I believe I should be able to wear yoga pants but like a professional top and do videos. That should be enough, right? And those are the ones that are just a little simpler, ones that we can… and we use them for marketing to go out and we start to get people excited about who we are and what we do by those. But if you’re not clear on those, then you’re going to have a hard time really building a brand because people don’t know what to belong to an end to something if somebody feels like they belong, like they’re with their people, they don’t feel crazy when they’re around you and they don’t feel judged. So they know. The other one is, I want to live in a world where it’s stuff where you don’t think are true right now, right?

Dana: 30:46
I want to live in a world where I can go and cry in the Starbucks bathroom because it’s been a horrible day and I come back out and I’m still smart. Right? You can’t cry out your intelligence ladies. It does not work that way, but we all feel that way. If I’m a little too emotional, then I can’t be a good business person or I can’t make good decisions and that those two are not mutually inclusive. But a lot of people… but so when I know that is how I feel, I understand that I can be sad one day and I can still give really good business advice later that afternoon. That I’m telling women that feel that way, that they go, “Oh my gosh, I want to live in that world too, ’cause right now I don’t feel like I’m that.” I want to live in a world where we’re not scared to tell the people that aren’t in our, in our business space what we do and get excited about it because we feel like we have a business we can brag about.

Dana: 31:34
I want to live in a world where we can brag about our online businesses instead of feeling like we have to justify the fact that I quit a job. Right? Because I start to map that out in this manifesto and which is like a one sheeter a lot of people make them like infographs and stuff like that. But the idea is, is now I have marketing, I have all my sales pages when I’m talking on podcast, when I’m… anywhere, these are the words that I’m using and people start going, oh my gosh, that’s what I want. That’s how I believe too. That’s the world I want to live in too. And then that, this is what I know to be true is like our values, right? So for us, Boss Mom is, I’m a big, big believer in everybody has value.

Dana: 32:13
If you get to know them enough, there’s something that they’re going to say that is going to change your life. That we should be raising everybody up. I’m a big believer that my first book, I’m like, you can’t love your… like, loving your business does not take away from your ability to love your children. There’s enough love to go around. Right? So when I say, this is what I know to be true is that, I have… I can’t remember my exact phrasing on our manifesto, but it’s something to the effect of like, I’m an amazing human being and you’re an amazing human being and my amazingness and your amazingness don’t detract from anything else. Right? And that I want to help raise you up as much as possible and you help me raise me up as possible so that we not only support, but we’re supported.

Dana: 32:53
And we can we live in a world where amazing women do amazing things without feeling judged, right? That’s what I want. That’s a value system to me where we’re kind to each other and we connect with each other. And because I map those things out, my brand already has a massively solid foundation because when those are the words that I use, then when I look at my logo, I know does that exude that? Does that say that? When I use pictures on our website, when I do videos of me, we want to be playful so that it’s accepting. We want to be elegant because we want to be intelligent, right? So we do dance parties, which is a solid part of our brand. We have fun. You know, we always, I love the outtakes of all my photo shoots because those are the ones that we want to use because I’m a regular human being and I’m going to tell you what I mess up on because it’s okay because everybody messes up on all these same things, right?

Stacy: 33:46
There is no transaction?

Dana: 33:47
Yeah. I was going to say… here’s the thing, the thing that you guys are failing at right now, everybody else is failing at that too, for the most part. I remember the very first time I forgot my kid’s lunch and I was leaving to go on the very first weekend away ever without the kids. I forgot my lunch. My mom was taking me to the airport and I was just like, “Oh my gosh, I’m the worst mom ever.” And my mom turned around and she’s like, “God, that’s such a pompous way to think that you’re the only mom that ever forgot her daughter’s lunch.” Come on, get over yourself. And I had to laugh at that because it’s such an interesting way of looking at it. We look at it like, “Oh, I did this thing, this marketing campaign, and it totally failed.”

Dana: 34:29
And just to think of my mom turning around and be like, “Oh gosh, get over yourself.” Like how pompous do you think that you’re the only one that ever had a marketing campaign that failed? Join the rest of the world? We all do half of it. 80% of what we do does not work. You just keep moving past it. Learn what you can, move on to the next thing. So I know that was a kind of rant off topic, but I couldn’t help myself.

Stacy: 34:51
It’s a good topic because the more you know more things of Tony Robbins or different classes that I’ve done, the more I realized how similar I actually am to everyone else from any walk of life. And that as a business owner has helped me and that as a just individual who I am because you start understanding that your flubs, your flaws, the things that you think were just horrible, everyone else has done them too and felt exactly the same way as you.

Dana: 35:21
Yeah.

Stacy: 35:22
That helps with the whole reliability to your brand too because now all of a sudden you can actually see connections in other people where before maybe there was a little bit more distance.

ana: 35:32
Yeah. Well that’s one of the other things too when we’re thinking about really branding and what’s going to help us stand out when we are out in the world and wanting people to buy our stuff and partner with us. Is that we seem to want to hide our idiosyncrasies as if I need to, like I said before, like in the very beginning, people that take away the humanness to be more professional. But you know, there’s a girl who, I use ontraport as my tool, and we were working on this… bringing somebody in. I’ve had multiple people trying to help me with this tool.

Stacy: 36:05
What is ontraport?

Dana: 36:06
So ontraport is like a email support system. It’s like an like Infusion Soft, MailChimp, Convert kit, all those things. Ontraport’s the one that I use and it’s like the one of the higher end ones. So it’s complex. I know how to use it. So I have done it in my business for a long time and was just like, I don’t want to do this anymore, someone else needs to do this. So we brought somebody in and we’re on a tool called Voxer where we can like walkie talkie back together and we’re kind of testing her out. She’s doing seven hours. So this trial run and I look at her little Voxer thing and I see she’s wearing, her profile picture is a Harry Potter vest with a wand. I looked at and I was like, do you have a Harry Potter wand in your Voxer picture?

Dana: 36:45
And she’s like, why? I do my lady, I do. And I was like, well, don’t tell anybody, but I may or may not have a Harry Potter wand remote control that I got for Christmas so dear. It happened. And you know, I grew up an older brother, so I love Scifi and fantasy and I personally don’t like anything that makes me feel like I’m in the real world. Like I don’t like reality shows or things with real things happening. I have enough crap happening in my life as it is.

Stacy: 37:11
It’s a fantasy [inaudible 00:37:11].

Dana: 37:11
Yeah. So it’s like, I like all the things that can’t be real, dragons and mermaids and stuff like that.

Stacy: 37:17
Mystical [inaudible 00:37:18].

Dana: 37:18
Mystical [inaudible 00:37:18]. All the way round. But what it was was instead of it being like she allowed herself to be herself and we totally connected in that space and we had this hilarious conversation about what we liked and then it turns out she trained acapella groups when she was out of college and I was in an acapella group and we’re both complete dorks and all the awesome it’s of ways.

Dana: 37:42
And now, I absolutely love her. Right? So if she would have done well at her job, but that was it, then it could have been give or take. There could be a ton of people that [inaudible 00:37:52] well job. But we made a connection on something we actually liked together because she made it visible the things that she likes. Right? So all of your idiosyncrasies don’t let them go. Let people know the weird things that you like, the weird traveling quirks that you have, like the things that you enjoy eating, the places you like going, the stuff that you like doing, the more that you keep those in because you don’t think they should be there and your brand ’cause you want it to be really professional looking, the harder it is for people to find ways to connect with you and the loyalty you have with people and the excitement for people to work with you isn’t just with what you sell, you know?

Dana: 38:29
So that’s another thing to think about is let those in your brand, like let those quirky things out. People still talk about the dance parties we did. And for every hundred people we had in the Facebook group. Now we have to do it every 5,000 people because we’re growing so, so fast. But people love the dance part and we do Karaoke at every single event I do. And it’s just part of what we do because we like to sing and have fun. And that’s part of what our brand is. And people latch onto that.

Stacy: 38:56
Yeah. And the more real you are, if there are mistakes that happened along the way, at least you’ve become more relatable and more connected and you’re no longer just an email in black and white type?

Dana: 39:09
Yeah, I agree.

Stacy: 39:10
Okay. So you were on number two a moment ago?

Dana: 39:12
Yeah, so it’s the I believe, it’s the, I want to live in a world where, this is what I know to be true and I can’t remember the fourth one.

Stacy: 39:19
Okay. Well, just [inaudible 00:39:20].

Dana: 39:21
I’ll let you know if I remember. I actually haven’t talked about the manifesto, but like a year because it’s one of the things we’ve had forever. We have a course on it. We have all that kind of stuff. I should probably refresh my memory on these things.

Stacy: 39:34
I think you’ve managed to do pretty well on it. That’s all right. Before we wrap up, I want to make sure that anyone who’s listening knows how to get ahold of you or your materials so that they can learn even more from all of the awesome advice that you’ve been sharing today. Do you want to share those details?

Dana: 39:55
Yeah. Yeah. So, to start normalplacesboss-mob.com and that brings you to are actually a pretty new fantastic site, that will lead you to our podcast. We have both Boss Mom, Boss Dad, it’ll lead you to our events. It’ll lead you to all the awesome resources that we have that are free and paid. And tell you all about the rest of the brand. It will also lead you to our Facebook group, which is really an amazing space. It’s like a think tank for mom entrepreneurs, which is pretty awesome. So that’s probably the easiest place to go. And then for everybody that’s listening, one of the really good tools that we have is, that’s most popular for us is Trello training where we show you how to run and plan and manage your business from the backend.

Dana: 40:44
So when I talked about like really good, successful brands have good, successful systems, this helps you understand how to lay out what you’re doing in your business from social media all the way to the the content you’re creating, and the business that you’re running and your clients and all that kind of stuff. It shows you how to set all that up on the backend so that you can have the team that you want and manage your strategies in the way that’s going to be most successful for you. And I should tell you where that’s at boss-mom.com/trello.

Stacy: 41:13
Okay. And that’s so much better than trying to keep it on your own head and dotting notes out, and then hoping that that new VA that you’re hiring or someone else who’s joining your team is going to be able to just somehow through osmosis, get all of this detail from you.

Dana: 41:28
I know, right.

Stacy: 41:30
Yeah. Osmosis does not work so well.

Dana: 41:32
It does not.

Stacy: 41:34
[inaudible 00:41:34] businesses for some strange reason. I don’t know why.

Dana: 41:38
So true.

Stacy: 41:39
Well, I want to thank you again so much for being on the show today and all of our listeners for tuning in. I think there was a ton of valuable advice that you shared and just [inaudible 00:41:49]. Thank you for your time and energy and positivity that you’ve shared with us today.

Dana: 41:56
Oh, well thank you for having me. This has been a blast.

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