In today’s episode, Stacy sits down with Jane Sagalovich, CFA Chief Strategist of Scale Your Genius. Jane helps experts leverage their time and expand their profit potential. With over 15 years of high-level corporate roles, and a business owner and entrepreneur, Jane has expertise in all things business and strategy. Today Jane shares how to help people sell their online courses successfully and how to get the proper eyes on your course. She shares how to create a course that gets results, brings actual value and tips on how to properly market a course to your niche.


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Transcripts:

Announcer:
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). Here’s your host, Stacy Jones.

Stacy Jones:
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). I’m Stacy Jones, and I’m so happy to be here with you all today. I want to give a very warm welcome Jane Sagalovich. Jane is a chief strategist at Scale Your Genius and founded the company four years ago to help people whose work makes a difference in people’s lives make a bigger impact, make more money, and have more freedom in how they do their work. She has helped hundreds of qualified experts create and sell their online courses and programs with clarity, confidence, and ease.
Today, Jane and I are going to be chatting about how to help people sell these online courses successfully and some common mistakes people make when setting up their plan. We’ll learn what works from Jane’s perspective, what should be avoided, and how some people in their businesses just miss the mark. Jane, welcome. So happy to have you here today.

Jane Sagalovich:
Thank you so much, Stacy. I’m excited to be here.

Stacy Jones:
What I’d love to do is start off the conversation of what got you going in your career today. What got you here where you’re now helping other people with their courses and to be more successful?

Jane Sagalovich:
I love this question because it’s been a really windy road and it’s a road that I find so many other people take that it’s the thing you think you’re going to be when you’re a little kid is rarely the straight road that takes you there. Before this, I spent 15 years in Corporate America, really living the American Dream. I had the visions of my first I think job I aspired to be was marketing at Ralph Lauren. Just like super American Dream company and job really. I went to college. I went to business school. I’ve worked at some of kind of iconic American companies.
What I started to realize was that something was really missing. On paper, everything looked so amazing. I had the title, the salary, the perks, all the things, yet I wasn’t like… I was dreading Mondays. I was kind of like living that of Monday sucking in. We’re looking forward to Fridays and the weekend. I knew that that was not what I wanted to be for what I wanted my life to be. Unlike what I would ever recommend people do, I one day decided to just leave all of that behind.
I said, “This corporate thing is just not for me. I can’t. This isn’t what’s making me happy, and it’s also not how I show up as my best.” One day I just left without really having a plan of what’s next. A friend of mine was starting a consulting company at the time and he’s been a career consultant. I said, “Hey, let me just join you to do this. You know the entrepreneur life. You know the consulting life.
I have a lot of skills I can bring from my 15 years in corporate strategy, finance investments,” things that are really relevant to small businesses, but I at that point only worked within a large business scale. We started the company together. I did that for three years, and I learned a lot. I also learned that I continued to hide behind somebody else. After that business imploded for various non-business related reasons, I realized that for me, in this point of my career, I had to be the CEO of my business.
I had to be the one setting division, driving division, and really creating what I want to create, which is really one of the things in addition to making a big difference on the people I work with, those two things were really, really missing for me and being able to really kind shine my light as brightly as I can and show up and make a big difference and love Mondays too in a way that I didn’t think was possible.

Stacy Jones:
That’s fantastic. And now you’re helping everyone love Mondays.

Jane Sagalovich:
I hope so. I think my clients love… That’s one of the feedbacks I get is they’re saying like, “I’m working more than ever, but I’m loving it more than ever.” In the creation process of the course, there is this investment of time that happens, and there’s the way to make it really enjoyable.

Stacy Jones:
When you’re working with someone now, do they usually have a course already, or do they come to you and they’re like, “I want to make a course and start off on this journey that I have the unknown and have no idea how to get there.”

Jane Sagalovich:
I’m sure if you ask any consultant out there, when clients come to them versus when we would love for clients to come to us, they’re very different answers. I would love for every single person to come to me when they first have the idea, right? It’s like you want to go from I’m in Denver, you’re in LA, so I want to go from Denver to LA. We’re going to have the best journey if I map that road out the best before I start the journey.
Sure, I can get on my car and start driving towards LA and go see a bunch of stuff along the way and take a really long way to get there, but the journey’s going to be the most enjoyable and efficient if I plant it from the front end. Ideally get help from the idea phase because there’s just… We can’t see our brilliance from inside of the haze of our own expertise. We can’t fully see what’s possible for us.
And then there’s like in the online business space, it’s such a noisy market, that if we just listen to what’s going on out there, mix it with not really being able to see what’s inside of us, we’re not necessarily going to put our best product forward. Ideally, people come to me at the very idea phase. I’d say about 30% of my clients get to me at that point. Everyone else, amazing. They take a leap. Action is better than doing nothing. People usually come to me. The other big point is they’ve created the course and no one came.
This course, there’s maybe a landing page out there somewhere, there may not be in. They’re like, “All right, now, how am I going to sell this thing?”

Stacy Jones:
They’ve put their blood, their sweat, their tears, their best ideas, their most top line inspiration, everything. This is their baby, this course, but it either is not getting eyes on it, or it’s not a course that people actually even want to take.

Jane Sagalovich:
Yeah. Those two things are kind of like a Venn diagram that overlap a little bit, right? What could be fixed versus what’s like, eh, let’s kind of start over and do that thing again.

Stacy Jones:
What do you do when they come to you? How do you approach it? What are the first steps that you do to dive in and try to figure out what the plan is?

Jane Sagalovich:
Is this for the people who already have the course, so we talk to them?

Stacy Jones:
You can go in either direction that you want.

Jane Sagalovich:
Well, let’s talk to them because I think that is the majority of the people that come to me and that’s probably the majority of the people that are out there. You have a course. You’ve built it. You’ve created a sales page. It’s not selling. The first thing I would do is kind of go back to the vision process. If this course didn’t exist, what is the course you would be really excited about creating today?
Because one of the things that I always say is the sunk cost fallacy, meaning that if you’ve already invested time in something, don’t keep going just because you’ve invested time into it, right? This could be a bad business idea, a relationship, whatever it is, saying like you don’t have to keep going down this route. The first thing we look into is if you’re going to put more blood, sweat, and tears into marketing this thing, how close is this to the thing that you actually want to do, right? The idea Ideally wouldn’t want to fully start over.
Ideally we take what has been created and usually shapeshift it. It may be shapeshifting around messaging of how do you talk about the course, but it may be some shapeshifting inside of the course too, a little bit of… Usually people don’t have to recreate the assets, right? If they’ve created digital modules, those don’t have to be recreated. Maybe they’re reordered. Maybe the way the structure is offered is changed a little bit.
80 to 90% of the work they’ve put in, we can use, but it’s first really kind of shapeshifting into something that is desirable and going to be profitable.

Stacy Jones:
And then how do you figure out what that’s going to be? When you’re saying to shapeshift it in, how do you dial in? What should someone be looking at and trying to figure out?

Jane Sagalovich:
Yeah. One of the most things specifically… Niching is not going to be probably new to any person listening to a marketing podcast. I’m sure most people say it. And as much as niching, I have opinions that may or may not jive with kind of the mass opinion on this when it comes to people’s general of practices, when it comes to an online course or an online program, it absolutely has to solve what I call one key problem for one type of client avatar.
You want to go a super, super, super, super niche down as you can, so that your marketing is super clear. When you are talking to that person, they can self-identify, but it’s also how you create a course that gets results and is not overly stuffed and bloated and kind of trying to talk to everybody, but really not helping anybody take that journey towards results. The first thing is, how targeted is it?
It may be a course that was created a little more generally. But when we go through the process of figuring out who it’s for, they may say, “Yeah, actually this course is actually really, really, really perfect for this specific kind of person. Let’s focus on selling it to them specifically.”

Stacy Jones:
And then when you’ve gone down that path and you are figuring out who that very specific target niche is, do you just go all in with that, or do you ever build in a second niche that you can have and do like a dual focus in two different campaigns? Or should you really be going super niche and just saying, “I’m all in on this audience?”

Jane Sagalovich:
That is the better answer for people who don’t have a very gigantic budget and an unlimited amount of time, just because if you’re doing one… If you have 10 hours, right? Are you going to put 10 hours towards marketing to this audience versus five hours and five hours? Now either strategy is going to take longer to hit. That’s not to say it’s good or bad. It’s how fast you want to see results, how much money and time, energy, effort do you have to put at it.
For most people who come into this business model, those numbers are not huge and that’s okay. That is the reason they have one. And then when that takes off, you could start testing others. But I do recommend just for the sake of efficiency and there’s no… I’ll say it this way. There’s no benefit of having two.

Stacy Jones:
Perfect.

Jane Sagalovich:
I’ll make it a simpler answer.

Stacy Jones:
If nothing else, you need to have one, dial it in, get it rolling. And then if you think that you want to have a secondary niche, you reapproach it with a totally new strategy and launch plan and go for it then.

Jane Sagalovich:
Exactly, exactly.

Stacy Jones:
Are you really, really saying just pick one audience?

Jane Sagalovich:
Yeah. I’ll give an example. One of my clients has a business course targeted at wellness businesses who are early on in their business career. The two target audiences he came in to working with me talking about was, one, people who were about to graduate from that specific school where they’re going to having these businesses, and the second demographic are people who had these businesses for three to five years and saw that the way they’re running their business doesn’t work, right?
The reason he was looking at both audiences as the same and as a lot of people do is because their destination is the same, is because both of these audiences at the end of working with him will have a successful, profitable, private practice. The problem is their starting points are so different that in our marketing messaging, we tried to see what does it look like when we talk to both and it just really diluted the message so much.
That even though there was some consistency in the destination, it’s really important that we can talk to their today reality for them to resonate with us. And if we’re talking to two different realities, it can get a little confusing.

Stacy Jones:
Okay. You have this audience. You have a plan. Then what?

Jane Sagalovich:
You have an audience. You have a plan. The next thing that I have my clients doing, this is one of my favorite things, I call it the desire builder phrase book. This is a fillable book that we give to people. People can create their own. It’s basically taking all the brilliant things they can say about their course and putting it into a one place document. So that anytime they need to write a post, an email, a sales page, a webinar, whatever it is, everything is right there. I also encourage people…
I know a lot of people will have these as like, “Here’s all the things I can say about my course. Here’s all the things that people say about them.” I recommend having two to three bullet points per category, so that you start creating this repeatable, punchy, resonant message that keeps that consistency. When people are consistent in this part of the process, then they can really see what is and isn’t working, right?
It’s like you were saying, a different thing every time you talk about your course, what’s working and what isn’t is hard to tell. If we have a consistent set of messaging we’re testing, then we’ll know pretty quickly how that’s resonating and if we need to talk about it differently at all. Have kind of consistent messaging handbook phrase book to pull from.

Stacy Jones:
When you’re working with people, are you dialing in so much as like colors and like social media copy and how many words you should be saying, not words to be saying when you’re actually building out how you’re going to market?

Jane Sagalovich:
Let’s talk about strategy, which is the next step, which is there is no right or wrong way to sell your course, right? So then going into like if someone’s course strategy is social media post, because either they have a big presence there or they like social media or whatever it is, then we will dive in and see how do you make the best out of this particular strategy. I’ll say me personally, I’m not an expert on Facebook Ads on social media, what kind of hashtags to use, right? So then if we need to bring in experts on specific topics, and I would recommend people like…
If someone is going to do a TikTok strategy, right? Hire somebody who’s an amazing TikTok person who knows that space inside it out, because it changes every day. Unless you’re paying really close attention to it, there’s not much I can offer on using TikTok other than from a general strategy like, is this the right strategy for you? If so, I recommend finding an expert who could do those number of words and who see the data of what is and isn’t working day in and day out and can get into those like nitty gritty details.
But those are also not critical to success, right? We can also be intentional with good messaging without all those tiny analytical tweaks and have really good outcomes.

Stacy Jones:
Besides bringing in experts in the social media space, what else can you do with strategy when you’re looking at what is the next step? I’ll just keep on asking, what’s the next step?

Jane Sagalovich:
What is the next step? Yeah. The step that they just created, they just created their marketing handbook basically. They’re like, okay, here’s my course. Here’s who wants it. Here’s why they want it. Here’s all the phrases I’m going to use to talk about it. The course is created in this example we’re talking about. So now the strategy is to start doing offer posts. We’re going to build some audiences. We’re going to nurture some audiences too on the side. But because they’re a saleable product right now, we want to talk to the people who need our product today.
There are people who need our help. They don’t want to be warmed up by you for a month. They don’t want to read about your story every day. They want to buy the thing. I recommend having sales structured posts, emails, wherever it is that they’re talking to the people who need their help is to have an actual offer that’s a clear offer. I recommend for people to start by creating a sales page if they don’t have one, or if the one they have isn’t really great, because the process of creating a sales page will help them get that clarity of what to say to sell the thing.
I find a lot of people, they’ll write content and they’ll do all the stuff, but they’re never selling the thing.

Stacy Jones:
Yeah. [Crosstalk 00:16:18]

Jane Sagalovich:
Go ahead.

Stacy Jones:
No, I think it’s the same strategy and it’s hard sometimes because people want to have a marketing get created, or they’ll want to have a press release created, or they’ll want to have all of these different things created. But if the building blocks of what the actual strategy is, who the persona is, who the offer is, and what the offer is, all of the details, all those little building blocks have to come together to make what you’re talking about actually be able to have happen.

Jane Sagalovich:
Absolutely. Yeah. That’s all the foundational stuff that they did with the discovery of like, who’s this course for and why they have it, and then all the messaging in there. So that, yeah, when they say stuff, there’s the foundation that’s underneath it that’s making the building of the house stable.

Stacy Jones:
Awesome. Okay. You have the marketing deck. Now are you ready to go to town? Are you ready to market? Are you ready to advertise?

Jane Sagalovich:
At this point, they start making offer posts. I recommend, when you have something to sell, like 60 to 80% of your time is on selling. It could be like updating your sales page, doing offer posts, doing sales webinars, things like that.
The other percentage of the time is building your audiences, your expert network, going on podcasts, writing articles, all those things that when somebody Googles you, when somebody asks about you, there’s enough information, enough data that comes up that builds that trust and make the offers without waiting to have all that stuff created, because there’s going to be people who will hear your message and say, “Hell yes,” and enroll and not need all the other stuff that takes time just by its nature.

Stacy Jones:
And then if you are someone who comes to you and you don’t have a course yet, what do you do there? Because that’s a little bit of a different strategy. You’re able to actually create better building blocks, I’m assuming, and instruct them and guide them a little bit more about what works.
Because someone might have a course created and have 500 modules in it and you’re like, “Can you carve this out and actually just do a short little course? And then you can upsell them to the next course instead of being like, here’s everything at once?” How do you work with people to help them be guided into what the best strategy and stuff is from day one?

Jane Sagalovich:
Absolutely. This is the part that I think is… When people start this process on day one, there’s just so much more possibility. They’re so much more open. We really start with the like, what do they want to create? Why do they want to create it? Who is it for? Really set those foundational blocks from the beginning.
Now, as soon as they figure all that out, that messaging handbook that I talked about, that gets created before we even know how long the course is, before we determine how many modules are in it or anything like that, because we already have the information we need to know who the offer is for and what it helps them get and the problems it solves and the goals that it helps them achieve.
We can now start building our audiences that will be the specific people with the specific problems and aspirations that our course will solve. We’re able to start building those audiences really early on, so that when the program is ready to sell, there are people who’ve been hearing about it. So then the first time you do put that offer post out, you’re not putting it out to kind of a room of people who have never heard about you.
That’s on the marketing side. That’s why it’s so important to start marketing before you start creating your course. I don’t necessarily recommend things like pre-selling or selling things that don’t exist or anything that sometimes we hear out there, it’s just building their audience.

Stacy Jones:
That’s the thing. For our listeners right now, there are a lot of people who believe that you do not need a course. You do not need anything. You need to advertise that there is going to be a live course and come join me. And then you’re going to build it with them and respond directly to what your audience’s needs are and questions they are. That’s kind of scary.

Jane Sagalovich:
It’s 99% guarantees to fail, and it’s going to be a shitty experience for everybody involved, because nobody wants to be on the receiving end of something that vague. If I just paid you thousands of dollars, don’t ask me. I’m here for you to guide me through a process. You need to be the expert. That’s why I paid you the money. I know people think that asking is somehow a positive thing, and I find it to be a very detrimental experience that has people kind of lose faith in you and also doesn’t give you the data you need to create something good.
Was it Henry Ford that… I think it’s attributed to him, but it’s not actually… He had said that if people asked… Before he created the car, that if he asked people what they want, they would’ve said a faster horse. If we ask people and they don’t know what they want, it’s like we’re going to give them not the right thing. But I do want to come back to what you said specifically about the program type. I work with people mostly who have one-on-one practices. They’re lawyers. They’re therapists. They’re financial advisors.
They’re various coaches, consultants who already work with people. The best strategy that I see working for people like that who want to scale is what I call the hybrid online course. And that is where you define the journey of what you want the people to do in your program or course and you create a digital journey for them to follow. But then you infuse that and you really supplement that with one-on-one or some small group support so that you can continue to deliver…
For people who are really good one-on-one practitioners, a lot of the magic cannot be translated into a digital product, into something prerecorded. A lot of it is in the moment, in the intuition, in the interaction. We create a model where that stays in the process that also enables them to charge much higher prices while they’re building that list so they don’t have a big audience to sell a low price product to.
We start there, and then go on to other models as their list grows, as this initial digital journey becomes really refined. I find that to be the perfect next step for 70 to 80% of people coming out of private practice who don’t already have a big audience that’s kind of ready to buy courses.

Stacy Jones:
And then what else are other mistakes people make when they’re starting out besides creating it on the go?

Jane Sagalovich:
Creating on the go. The other big one is creating an inexpensive product when you don’t have an audience, right? If you create something that’s like $97, you’re a long way away from me… If you have a $10,000 monthly goal. What’s 10,000 divided by a hundred? A thousand? You need that many new clients every single month. If you don’t really have an audience that’s ready to buy from you, then trying to sell a product that’s that low does not take you any less time of an investment to create than this hybrid course I talked about that can sell for like $2,500 and up.
Trying to sell a low thing thinking that it’s easier to sell is going to… Maybe you’ll be getting 300 bucks a month and that’s I’m guessing the amount of effort people put into to create. It’s worth a lot more than that. That’s the big one is thinking that it’s easier to sell something inexpensive.

Stacy Jones:
And then when you’re thinking about the course, there’s different ways of doing courses. You can do it live. Besides live, you can like on video, right? You can do a video course. You’re talking to people. You’re engaged. If you’re not a video person, you could still do a video, but have it more be presentation style and either you’re the head in the little box, or you’re just the voice. What do you think are the best approaches for this? Are there some that work better than others?

Jane Sagalovich:
It really depends on the information they’re trying to portray. For example, if it’s like complicated information, then slide decks, PowerPoint presentations are the best way because you want people to listen. You want them to see the words on the screen. Maybe you’re having do like a workshop style too, right? You want them to be really present to be able to get that information. You want to have multiple things happening at once and have them engaged in all of those things. Sometimes people do…
If it’s a peripheral information on a topic, I love those delivered as like an audio, like a private podcast or something, where it’s nothing… If they don’t need to do anything in that moment and they can just listen passively, awesome. Let them listen while they’re going for a walk with their dog, instead of having to sit at a computer and like stare at a talking head face when there’s no other kind of value to that face being there. I use those two examples as just really understand what the experience is.
The last one I’ll say, and this one’s a huge pet peeve of mine, is when you’re giving instructions to people, don’t only do it in video. Also have a written component. Because there’s nothing worse than trying to fast forward, rewind through a video looking for a specific set of instructions on how to do something and not really knowing where it is. I recommend whenever doing videos to also provide a text version of the video so they can get the information or least find a place in the video where they want to go.
The common theme is their experience, is what is the client’s experience? What do you need them to know, to think, experience in the moment of the delivery of that information?

Stacy Jones:
Are there any things that you absolutely should not do?

Jane Sagalovich:
Should not do. Oh, so many. What should not do? The other one that I see people doing that I think is a waste of time is beta program. People create a program or a course and they do this low price beta that they put out there that their real program. Let’s say they think it’s going to be $950 and they put this thing out for $200 in the hopes of getting some kind of data. I just find in that experience, they just deliver $250 program and that’s fine, but they don’t really get any data because it’s a different kind of…
A $200 buyer is different than a $950 buyer. It’s the sales process. It’s the experience that it’s like, it’s fine they did that, but there’s no benefit to doing it. I find going straight into the real program to be a much better experience for everybody involved.

Stacy Jones:
Is there an ideal length of time for a real program? Is there an ideal amount of content versus here’s my two hour course versus here’s my 20 week course?

Jane Sagalovich:
I love this question because it is like… I have a colleague who has a three hour course that is amazing. The first program my last partner and I did was a year long. Your program needs to be the length it needs to be to deliver the outcome of your promise. Things to keep in mind are what is the urgency to get to the results for the clients, right? I always use the example of a weight loss program. If somebody wants to lose 10 pounds, they want to do it quickly. The quickest, healthiest way, right?
If I can lose healthily 10 pounds in one month, then it should be a one month program, versus I don’t want to hang out with you for six months losing the same 10 pounds that I could have lost in one month. On the other side, there’s a lot of programs and this is in a lot of like mindset and somatic and just wellness kind of stuff, where we just need integration time, where, sure, you could deliver the information quickly, but for us to integrate it, to practice it, to embody it, to be able to do the thing may take longer.
Even though the amount of content isn’t more, maybe there’s just more spaciousness of time in the program where people could take time to do the things, to practice the things, and then come back and ask questions or have that time before the next step. A lot of considerations on, one, how much content, and two, how much time, and those two are slightly separate questions.

Stacy Jones:
Three hours and it rocks on his course.

Jane Sagalovich:
What’s that?

Stacy Jones:
You said his course rocks at three hours.

Jane Sagalovich:
Oh yeah. It’s a three hour course and it is amazing. I think it was… I want to say it’s $950. People love to calculate hourly stuff.

Stacy Jones:
I’m paying $315.33 to the nth in order to get this course, versus I can spend $9.99 for this one that is whack-a-mole.

Jane Sagalovich:
Exactly, exactly. It’s like, what’s the outcome you want? I’d rather spend three hours getting the same result than spending 20 hours getting the same result, right? I love my time.

Stacy Jones:
I think I would actually be willing to pay more money to save time, to get faster insight. It kills me. Those online courses that try to… They create a webinar for you to sell in the course, and they ask you to come to the webinar and it’s an hour or 90 minutes or two hours long, and they’re going to teach you things. Obviously they want to teach you things that are enough without giving away their whole course, but I don’t understand the need for that length of my time to get to the end of the sell where I’m hoping to get some little tiny nuggets along the way.
The whole time it’s just regurgitation of the same thing over and over. Because then I think that their courses are going to be full of inflated air and that I’m going to be wasting my time and spinning here looking for the little nuggets.

Jane Sagalovich:
They probably are. They probably are. Yeah, absolutely. I remember when I came into the online space and I started watching webinars for the first time ever. I remember watching one and it was like 15 minutes in and I think he’s still talking about himself. I remember typing in the comments like, are we ever going to get to the content? I’m here to learn the thing you told me you’re going to teach me, not to like look at a picture of your dog on vacation in Italy.

Stacy Jones:
I could possibly know who you’re talking about on that, because there’s been many.

Jane Sagalovich:
Yes, the Italian vacation dog.

Stacy Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Italian vacation.

Jane Sagalovich:
If that’s you, if you’re listening and that’s you, don’t do it,

Stacy Jones:
Don’t do it. Do not. We talked just now about monetization and the fact that I would be willing to pay more money for a shorter course versus looking for my hourly costs breakdown. How do you suggest people approach pricing, because that’s a whole strategy to itself that’s quite complicated, potentially?

Jane Sagalovich:
It is. I have an entire webinar that’s up on YouTube asa free training specifically on the topic of pricing, because it is such a huge topic. The quick answer is it’s a combination of two things. It’s a combination of the value of the program elements, so that is what the outcome is, the efficiency of the outcome, all those things, on top of that is layered all the perception stuff, right? Because when we buy things, it’s not like, “Oh the value…”
We’re not really quantifying the value of something very directly, and then the other person will see the exact same way. We have our opinions. They’ll have their opinions.

Stacy Jones:
Sure.

Jane Sagalovich:
The flavors of section are the results of the program, the experience they have, right? I know I’ve been in the position where I’ve paid a lot of money for a program just to come into something that’s like really discombobulated and hard to find anything. I just paid way too much money for this to be the experience. The experience has to matter. The marketing and the positioning, right? If the people don’t know your course is amazing, they’re not going to pay big money for it. And finally, the confidence in being able to deliver the results.
You see this a lot is people will create something that they’re not totally sure about. They’ll kind of like… It’s a lot of like, “Well, this may help you, and I think this is good for you.” Even if the words are fine, the energy will give it away. It’s a combination of like the actual value combined with the perceived value. I know that’s not very specific, but we can link to the free training too.

Stacy Jones:
100%. I think I’m going to make sure myself and my team watches that for our own online course because the dollar and the pricing is always the question. Again, it comes down to your audience too. Because if you have an audience that are students, their pricing is going to be very different than if your audience is professionals.
When I say students, in college or someone who’s learning, versus someone who’s getting a feather on their cap and so much insight and knowledge that they’re going to be able to take their business to the next level in a different way. Their investment in it is going to be a direct correlation to where their life stage is as well.

Jane Sagalovich:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And I’ll relate it to the value of the outcome, and that is because the people in different life stages have different value expectations for the outcome, right? That is part of the reason too is like even a college student, if you offer them a program that’s going to be somehow really life changing, they’ll find the mone.y they can get a second job. They can ask somebody. They’re usually more resourceful than the rest of us.
I wouldn’t necessarily do a low price just because it’s an audience that doesn’t inherently make a lot of money, because there are people who can… I’ll use the example of teachers. A lot of time, people create programs for teachers and think they inherently have to be lower priced and that’s just not the case. Because if you think of where money comes from, I mean, some of it is from the salary, but people have money from different places.
That’s one of the mistakes you’ll see in the webinars. Don’t try to look inside their wallets. Don’t try to figure out how much money they have to gauge price.

Stacy Jones:
How do people find you? Where do they go online, or where do they dial in if they’re like, “I have a course, and I need some help figuring out the strategy plan?”

Jane Sagalovich:
Yeah. Our website always has the latest training, the latest kind of opt-in ebook, whatever, on the front page. It’s scaledgenius.com. Check out what’s going on in the top banner. There’s always a button for something that we have going on. Check out the learning library in there. It’s one of the tabs. It’s all of our videos, our articles, things that we’ve been a guest on. This podcast will be on there when it launches. It’s a great place to just get all of our wisdom in one place.
And specifically for the link I’m leaving with you guys, it’s our Hell Yes Offer Scorecard, and it is how to figure out if the idea you have for your online course or program is a good one. It’ll take you through a scorecard. You’ll get to score yourself and see what your next steps are. I don’t know the link off the top of my head, but I’m sure it’ll be somewhere where you’re listening or watching.

Stacy Jones:
It will 100% be in the show notes. You will find it. Just go look in the show notes and you will be able to find the link. We’ll make sure that it’s included in some of the social media content that we are doing to promote as well.

Jane Sagalovich:
Perfect. Yes.

Stacy Jones:
Any last words, a parting advice, to our listeners today who are either thinking about creating a course or trying to figure out how to get their course back on track?

Jane Sagalovich:
Yeah. Do it. Do the thing. I see so many success stories after success stories of people… As people whose work makes a difference, we’re here to help people. That’s our mission. If your business model right now is limiting you from being able to do that, then I just encourage you to do the thing. I know we talk a lot about mistakes and things not to do. That can sometimes feel a little scary. It’s like, “Oh, I can’t do this or do that.” Do the thing. Doing a thing is better than not doing it.
You’ll figure it out. You’ll be successful. Get help along the way if you choose to. But going in that direction is better than sitting and spinning in overwhelm and kind of grinding out client sessions until you die.

Stacy Jones:
I will tell you from my own experience, when you actually have a course that’s launched and it starts selling and you start like in your PayPal account or however you have it set up and you’re like, “Where’d that money come from? Wait, how did I get money there?” And you’re getting these updates and you’re saying, “So and so bought your course.” You’re getting thumbs up from people. You’re like, “Wait, I can make money when I’m sleeping. I can actually do something that I have the power of creating.”
It gives you so much true empowerment of being able to share your insights and knowledge and find ways that you’re actually helping other people. It’s lovely. It really is nice besides the money.

Jane Sagalovich:
So well said. So well said. Its does take off like a snowball. It’s just this time of silence, and then it starts picking up, picking up, and then kind of the lit is blown off because there’s just traction in the way marketing works. The more testimonials you get coming in, then your marketing intensifies. You get to a point where it does feel really amazing and it doesn’t have to take a long to get there at all.

Stacy Jones:
That’s awesome. Well, Jane, thank you so much for joining us today. Really enjoyed having you here. I am going to be diving in and taking your class and making sure our team takes it and scouring your website and chatting with you more as well, because everyone can always do improvements. And having someone who’s a consultant and who is a specialist in an area can allow you to fast track versus figuring out all the mistakes on your own.

Jane Sagalovich:
Exactly, exactly. It was my pleasure being on here. Thank you, Stacy.

Stacy Jones:
Of course. And to all of our listeners, thank you for tuning in to another episode of Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). I greatly appreciate your time and know that if you would like to check out Hollywood Branded’s own online classes, because why not plug this now here, right?
Go to learn.hollywoodbranded.com and you can visit and see lots of courses galore that are set there for many stages of your career to help you figure out pop culture partnerships, product placements, celebrity endorsements, influencer marketing, social media, all those things that will help you get on your way to helping your brand become more established. Have a great day.

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Marketing Mistakes and How To Avoid Them Reviews 

Must-Listen For Every Brand Marketer (And Owner)

This should be required listening for everyone who owns a business, works in marketing, or is interested in the business of entertainment. Great stuff!

The Best Marketing Podcast Ever!

Stacy is a brilliant branding strategist and she really knows how to bring out the best in her guests! This show is fun AND educational! If you’re looking to understand the world of marketing, branding, digital marketing, influencer marketing and more, look no further. This show has awesome insight into some of the greatest marketing minds out there today, and they provide practical advice you can use in your business today. #FanForLife

Awesome podcast for all marketers!

Keep them coming

Practical and pointed advice.

Stacy does a really great job making this a highly actionable podcast for business owners. With a focus on marketing, she covers a wide range of related topics as well and is always very specific with her questions so that the listener gets pointed advice instead of vague concepts to take away. It’s also really helpful to the hear the why behind any marketing tactic so that we can decide if something sounds like a good fit for where we are at in this moment.

Love this marketing podcast!

Lori has a way of finding new insights to share every week. I loved being a guest, but I enjoy hearing her many fascinating conversations with other marketers even more. Great show!

I love Stacey Jones!

I absolutely loved being on this podcast! Stacey is amazing – real, down to earth, and genuinely curious and interested in learning – this makes for a very engaging conversation and valuable podcast!

Thank you for your podcast! I LOVE IT

I just listened to the episode named Insights To Product Placement Brand Marketers Need To Know, and I really enjoyed every minute of it! There are so many ways to approach product placement in a manner that provides wins for many – and it is not always driven by money. I am looking forward to listening to more!

Stuff we need to know!!

Anyone who is in business should be listening to this podcast! Incredible insights and advice.

Such a wealth of knowledge! 🧠

This is one of the most insightful podcasts that I have ever come across! Stacy does such a great job of sharing her wisdom and I love how she leads meaningful conversations with guests who bring so much experience to the table. Highly recommend checking this show out – you won’t be disappointed!

Awesome Podcast!!!

Stacy, host of the Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them) Podcast, highlights all marketing and more in this can’t miss podcast! The host and expert guests offer insightful advice and information that is helpful to anyone that listens!
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