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Stacy Jones: 00:00
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and how to avoid them. I’m Stacy Jones, the founder of Influencer Marketing and branded content agency Hollywood Branded. This podcast provides brand marketers a learning platform for topics first to share their insights and knowledge on topics which make a direct impact on your business today. While it is impossible to be well versed on every topic and strategy that can improve bottom line results, my goal is to help you avoid making costly mistakes of time, energy, or money, whether you are doing a DIY approach or hiring an expert to help. Let’s begin today’s discussion.
Speaker 2: 00:30
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. Here’s your host, Stacy Jones.
Stacy Jones: 00:35
Welcome to marketing mistakes and how to avoid them. I’m Stacy Jones. I’m so happy to be here with you all today. I’m want to give a very warm welcome to entrepreneur
Molly Rose [inaudible 00:00:49].
Molly Rose created the academy for virtual assistants, which trains and places VAs nationally to help other driven entrepreneurs integrate, implement, systematize, and automate their businesses. She is also the operations genius behind Build a Bigger Life, a retreats, events, and consulting company. Today, we’re going to talk about how a virtual assistant can help your business and how to best outsource one. We’ll learn what’s worked for Molly’s experience, what maybe could be avoided and where other people are missing the mark. Molly, welcome.
Molly Rose: 01:12
Hi Stacey. Happy to be here.
Stacy Jones: 01:14
I am so happy to be here. For all of our listeners here today, Molly Rose and I have been working together on my own outsourcing of virtual assistants and after speaking with her and talking about all the things that she offers, I knew she had to come onto the show and share her knowledge and experience with all of you all as well.
Molly Rose: 01:34
Yes. It’s really exciting to have a VA of my own headed your direction pretty soon.
Stacy Jones: 01:39
Yeah, very exciting. To start off, can you share with our listeners a little bit more about you, who you are, and what got you to where you are today? Because your business started a little differently and who you work with is a little different as well.
Molly Rose: 01:55
Absolutely. About six years ago, I like to say I was a corporate cubicle dweller doing the nine to five grind to the 45 commute each way, never having time for travel or holidays. I’m sure a lot of us are still living that and I knew something needed to change, so I quit cold Turkey and I found the career of being a virtual assistant. Fast forward to today, I now call myself a business integrator, which is kind of the top of the support service chain for entrepreneurs and I’ve done everything from general admin, to building websites, to strategic planning with my clients, and now I’m teaching other virtual assistants how to do the same through my academy for virtual assistants.
Stacy Jones: 02:33
That is awesome. Then with your virtual assistants, you have a specific niche that you work with, not just only them, but can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Molly Rose: 02:43 Yeah, so the virtual assistant that I work with or the business owner?
Stacy Jones: 02:47
With military is actually the direction I was going.
Molly Rose: 02:50
Yeah, totally. Yeah. I’m also a military spouse, so that role lended well to this career path. I started getting asked the same question over and over by military spouses, “How do I do what you do?” That was kind of the foundation or the passion behind creating this program. A lot of the women that have gone through my program are military spouses and then of course they get the word out, and so we have a lot of moms, and world travelers, and it’s kind of a motley crew, but the foundation is spouses, which is really rewarding and cool.
Stacy Jones: 03:22
Yeah. What I loved about that is you have people who have really great backgrounds in education and they are just off on their own world travels because that’s where their family is and they have hours that they can spend still helping you as a business owner.
Molly Rose: 03:38
Yes, absolutely. So it’s, it’s really neat to see them go from confined lifestyle to be able to travel when their husbands are deployed or if they’re a teacher, they can work all summer and kind of adapt their, their schedules that way. And it’s really cool.
Stacy Jones: 03:53
That’s awesome. Virtual assistants, like when I have thought about hiring virtual assistants and I have over the years, and I have someone who’s phenomenal who works with me and has for the last couple of years, but I stumbled upon her. It was not easy to actually find, and there some rocky roads that can happen along the way, and you help take that away.
Molly Rose: 04:15
Yeah. I think what I saw was when I got into this career, I was very proud of it, and I saw it was really saturated, so it was hard to if I were to go to market to get clients to get noticed for be a really professional, hardworking, quality virtual assistant, and I knew something like that needed to change. So going to places like Upwork, which used to be Odesk, or some of these sites where you can just purchase hours but you don’t actually meet your VA, you’re getting a different standard. This has been a really cool experience to take mostly college graduates, just looking for flexibility with the ability to figure things out, and put them to work with amazing entrepreneurs and business owners. It’s really cool. Yeah.
Stacy Jones: 05:00
That’s great. What are some of the mistakes that people make along the way of trying to source, and find, and hire, and work with, there’s so many things here, a virtual assistant?
Molly Rose: 05:12
Yeah, I get asked this a lot. I think that letting go as a business owner is key, so trusting and having that period of 60 to 90 days when you bring someone into your business, and testing them small but not worrying about major mistakes, just just talking through them as they happen, and open communication. What works for you, what works for them, and make sure that it’s balanced on both sides is very important. Setting those roadblocks up throughout your onboarding relationship is really important because then it carries through for the years to come and they know that they can talk to you just as much as you can talk to them. It’s just a well-oiled friendship almost if then get it to work that way.
Stacy Jones: 05:54
That is awesome. How does the process start? Share what I did with you and to kind of share the path of how does someone as an entrepreneur, business owner, they know they want a virtual assistant, what do they do?
Molly Rose: 06:09
Yes. My recommendation is always to go through a two week period. You can do this in a week if you’re a super, super busy entrepreneur. I have a guide that goes with this, but basically you just need a sheet of paper and you write down everything that you do for two weeks. Like call your mom, send this email, invoice someone, do a coaching call, onboard a team member, do payroll, whatever it is, right? Just keep going and just keep a little log. Then at the end of two weeks come back to it and look at it and circle all the things that you physically have to do. I bet you like 10% of it is actually demanding you and your time and your brain. The rest of it can be outsourced.
That’s an exercise we didn’t have to go through cause you are very savvy and organized, but most entrepreneurs need that type of let’s just get this out and understand that there really is a lot that you can be outsourcing, and then that will create your job description. From there, if you work with me, I take you through a consult and we figure out how many hours is this going to take, talk through budgets, personality types, communication style, and then we can match you with a professional virtual assistant of the program or you can find someone on your own.
Stacy Jones: 07:23
Then with the virtual assistants, is it that they have to be doing office work or are there other things that they can be doing to help you as well?
Molly Rose: 07:30
Yeah, so this is where it gets really exciting and some virtual assistants specialize in things, but VA is kind of our jack of all trades in a lot of cases. They can help you with social media, and marketing, and website updating if they know that. If not, a lot of them will be willing to learn. Then they can also do the admin that we all know VA’s for, like checking email, and calendar, scheduling, booking appointments, travel, those managerial type of things. There’s a whole bunch of stuff in between. I’ve built courses for people, and helped with branding, and a lot of various things that seem a little bit more high level, but virtual assistants are actually equipped to handle.
Stacy Jones: 08:11
Usually with a virtual assistant, you have someone who has a mindset of being able to learn new things that are not your plotters, who are not going to need to have the same in and same out every single day of the week.
Molly Rose: 08:23
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. In fact, they probably appreciate not doing the same thing every day. They like, of course, having their tasks listed at the end of the week that they finished by the end of the week, but it’s always changing based on the goals of the business, and entrepreneur, and the direction that they’re going in. It’s good.
Stacy Jones: 08:41
How is it different than having an employee in house? So why would someone say, “Oh, I need to get a VA”, versus, “Oh, I just need to bring someone else into my company.”
Molly Rose: 08:50
Yeah. This is good because the overhead is a lot lower, because the of acquiring a new employee for companies is expensive and benefits are involved there. With that though, I have seen VAs go from a contract employee to a to an employee, so that that always is an option. But it allows for a lot more flexibility. You can grow their role as as they grow. You know, starting someone at 20 hours a month might feel most comfortable, but then you’ll probably quickly get to 40 hours a month and so on. There’s just a lot more flexibility with having a contractor in this type of role and a lot more flexibility with what they can do and take on. When they work, it works well for them to have that flexibility of their own business so they can set their own hours and feel comfortable with that as well.
Stacy Jones: 09:35
There are a lot of VA services out there and we kind of touched on it earlier about some of the negatives that are based overseas in Asia and the Philippines a lot of times where they have a mill of VA’s and you’re like, “Oh, I only have to pay $6, or $7, or whatever it might be to work with them,” but you’re getting the quality of what you’re getting as well.
Molly Rose: 09:59
Yup. Yeah. I’m happy you’re highlighting that because I think that’s really important to understand. When you’re paying someone 20 plus dollars an hour, you’re getting that. I use the word equal energy exchange, right? There’s an importance to your work that somebody that’s being paid that is going to take on. Right? I think that’s really important. I have worked with VAs overseas for certain things. They’re great. You just want to be very specific and they do one thing very well, Whereas you’re hiring kind of someone to come in and see all the goals of your business and help where they can.
Stacy Jones: 10:32
Yeah. No, we’re really lucky. I have someone, her name is Angie, and she’s worked with us for a couple of years and she is based overseas, and she’s phenomenal. But I really, really lucked out because that’s not the case with everyone.
Molly Rose: 10:45
Yes it is. I have heard of great success stories, so it’s not to limit any overseas countries, but just be on the look out for the differences
Stacy Jones: 10:54
It also means having to go down the path of potentially lots of not ones that great that work out so well too.
Molly Rose: 10:54
Stacy Jones: 11:03
Yeah. When you’re working, you mentioned that you could have someone who’s 20 hours, that could grow to 40 hours a week, or a month, or all the hours are pretty much up in the air with that. Is there anything that’s like too small, like you should not consider until you have at least this many hours to offer someone?
Molly Rose: 11:21
Yeah. My recommendation is at least five hours a week, 20 hours a month is the minimum. We’ve done less and it does work if you’re very, very organized and it’s that you send them a task with some Monday, it’s done by Friday, and there’s not a lot of back and forth, but the five hours allows for asking questions and feeling like more of a team member and not having to rush through everything in two hours. It’s kind of a good balance for the VA to be able to take you on as a serious client and then allows the flexibility for the business owner and to kind of give them a little bit more responsibility. That’s kind of the recommendation.
It’s great to see people would be really nervous to get five hours a week and then I followed back up with them, three months later and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, we already have them the 15 hours a week,” and they are just are in full joy of having the support person. I laugh when people are like that.
Stacy Jones: 12:14
No, it’s awesome, because I mean that’s 15 hours of you as an owner not doing something ultimately. That’s a massive way to leverage your own capabilities and focus on building your business, or operations, or other things that you need to get going.
Molly Rose: 12:30
Yes, absolutely. I always like to also recognize that if you’re an entrepreneur and a business owner, it’s probably pretty likely that you’re a visionary or not attention to detail, not very efficient at some of these things, so it’s 15 hours, but they’re probably getting even more done than you would be getting done in those 15 hours because they’re so efficient. It’s what they do, it’s how their mind works, so there’s a huge difference there.
Stacy Jones: 12:56
And plus you’re not being distracted. Your phone’s not ringing, the emails aren’t coming. You’re not having an employee tap your shoulder. All of those things that go into it as well.
Molly Rose: 13:06
Stacy Jones: 13:07
Yeah. Yes. The life of a business entrepreneur is a little ADD all over the place.
Molly Rose: 13:12
Yeah. Yeah. I call it squirrels. Constantly looking everywhere, just squirrels, squirrels, really.
Stacy Jones: 13:18
Or bright, shiny, sparkly things that get your attention and you’re off and running.
Molly Rose: 13:25
Stacy Jones: 13:25
With everything else forgotten.
Molly Rose: 13:27
Absolutely. Very common.
Stacy Jones: 13:29
Welcome to life as an agency owner and I’m sure many other businesses too.
Molly Rose: 13:33
Yes. Yes. You guys are not alone.
Stacy Jones: 13:36
No, by any means. Are there certain businesses that just work better? When you’re working with entrepreneurs and business owners, are there certain types of companies that work better than others?
Molly Rose: 13:48
No, I don’t think that there is one that’s cream of the crop. Everybody’s different. I had experienced serving just one solo entrepreneur and then agencies like yourself that have teams and the delegations coming from multiple people, and they both work. It’s just all about having great systems and communication in place. That seems to be great.
Stacy Jones: 14:10
That’s something I think is really cool that you just touched on is that it doesn’t necessarily have to be the entrepreneur or the business owner, that one key person giving all of the information over to that VA.
Molly Rose: 14:21
Yeah, absolutely. We’ve placed people within agencies and there’s going to be four people dedicated to a full time VA we’re going to bring in. The whole conversation was just around, okay, now how do you task efficiently, and delegate. Then they’re figuring it out and it’s working really well.
Stacy Jones: 14:38
That’s great. Then can you also have the VA work with other people where they help manage other people?
Molly Rose: 14:45
Yes, yes. As the VA grows, I share that they kind of almost become like a business operations person within your business. The upleveling from a VA to business operations, OBM is kind of the term in the industry, operations business manager. They can outsource. If you’re working with a designer, they might help run that, so they become your point person as the business owner and then they can come and work with all the contractors on the team. That’s ideal as they grow in to that role if they’re a good fit.
Stacy Jones: 15:17
That’s great. Then are there any no-gos with virtual assistants that you should totally keep top of mind of just being like, “You should never ask them to do this. What are you thinking?”
Molly Rose: 15:30
Oh, I don’t know. I’ve been asked to do some crazy things. I don’t think so. I think the VA from the beginning kind of knows are they doing some personal tasks and business tasks and they just know to expect that. I think it’d be really crazy if they’ve been working for you doing just business stuff forever and then you’re asking them to pay your gas bill. That’s happened to me, or ordered gifts for their husband. That’s all on the table for virtual assistants, but if they’re consistently just working in your agency and then these odd things happen, that’s a little different. But no, it really is a plethora of of things that they can do for someone
Stacy Jones: 16:13
That is good to know. No surprise birthday purchases for a significant others? Set up beforehand that you’re going to be doing the personal stuff.
Molly Rose: 16:21
Nothing weird. Yeah.
Stacy Jones: 16:25
Okay. Fair enough. What else should people know when hiring a virtual assistant or going out and trying to decide if this is the right thing for them?
Molly Rose: 16:33
Right. I think that I have never seen it not work in favor of the business owner. If anything, they just go the polar opposite, like I said, and want more, and more, and more. I think that if you’re considering a virtual assistant that you should try it. You should do what I said with the two hour exercise, and put your hands up for a little bit, and see what happens. Because I honestly think staying in your zone of genius and allowing other people to do the same for you, it is the best opportunity you can do for your business.
Stacy Jones: 17:08
Yeah. You said that I came so prepared and I had my list of all these things or what I wanted them to do, but that’s just one list. I mean if I actually sat down and thought about all the things I had to do and that I do, I mean that would be crazy time as a business owner. I’m sure that gets a lot of really productive results from that.
Molly Rose: 17:27
Yes, totally. That’s probably one of my favorite conversations with business owners coming back to them two weeks later and we’d go through this list and they’re just astounded at all the things that they do and how unproductive they are. That’s really something to see and then be able to give them someone to come and take all this off their plate. It’s really rewarding to see the business owners like, “Thank you. Thank you.”
Stacy Jones: 17:51
It’s the best thing ever.
Molly Rose: 17:52
Right? Right, exactly. Yeah. If people do have virtual assistants, I always plug this, because I was one for so long and these little things make such a difference, but quarterly send them, even if it’s something as small as a gift card to Starbucks. Just remember your VA and what they’re doing for you as part of your team, as your personal assistant, because that’s what they are. I think rewarding them monetarily or with a gift is always really nice and it goes a long way for people. I always just want to make sure people remember the VAs out there that are working from their deaths at home by themselves, because it makes a difference to recognize them. Ask them how their weekend is and things like that.
Stacy Jones: 18:34
That makes sense. Then you suggest, actually you just said ask them how, so is this better to do video chats, phone chats, emails? What’s the best way to set it up for someone?
Molly Rose: 18:44
Yeah, communication is probably the number one thing to make a relationship succeed, so this is a great question. I recommend one channel. It took me a few years to figure this out, but I use an app called Voxer.
Stacy Jones: 18:58
Molly Rose: 18:59
It’s a walkie talkie app, so voice memo app basically. But the reason why I use it is it’s one channel for my clients. When I’m plugged in and I’m on the clock for that client, I listen to those voxes and I go to town, as opposed to getting a text message at 10:00 PM, or middle of the day, and of course I’m going to read it and then my mind is going to switch. It allows the business owner to leave messages whenever they want and then they just know that whenever their VA is on the clock, they’ll run through it. It’s kind of just a place to keep your brain for them.
Then I recommend weekly calls, so Monday or Tuesday mornings just get on for however long it takes you guys and you work through your list for the week.
Then the third key is Asana, a project management tool. A lot of people use different things. Asana is my golden ticket.
Stacy Jones: 19:48
Yeah, we used Monday.
Molly Rose: 19:49
Yeah, Monday, which is I heard really good, too. Super great place. That’s where you communicate the rest of the week. That’s where the task list goes. Everything stays in something like that. Stay out of email, because entrepreneurs have so many emails.
Stacy Jones: 20:04
I am such this person. Okay, so why stay out of email? Because it’s so just all over the place and not trackable versus the project management?
Molly Rose: 20:11
Yup, absolutely. I think that your brain is in a different mode when you’re in email. It’s frustrating and exhausting for most entrepreneurs and business owners. A lot of times VAs are managing the inbox anyway, so it’s just a lot of back and forth whereas keeping things in it’s own system really pays off for productivity, and efficiency, and planning. Everything’s in one place.
Stacy Jones: 20:35
That makes sense.
Molly Rose: 20:36
Stacy Jones: 20:36
Okay. What else do business owners need to keep in mind? You’ve come up with tons of valuable tidbits so far.
Molly Rose: 20:44
I know, you’re stretching me. No, that’s good. I think another thing that business owners can keep in mind is that you can continually add tasks to your virtual assistant. If you onboard them and you have like these five things that you’re interested in doing, know that when other things come down the pipeline that you need, we’re going to hire a contractor for, go to your VA first and see if they’re interested and give them the opportunity to take those extra hours and that extra project, because it’ll integrate them more into your business, be more of a partner with you, give them more hours. It’s just a good well-rounded thing and it doesn’t add this third person to the team that might not necessarily need to be there. Yeah, don’t limit what you think they can do based on what they’re already doing.
Stacy Jones: 20:44
Okay. That makes sense. But what happens is if? There’s an if.
Molly Rose: 21:35
Stacy Jones: 21:36
You’ve mentioned that you’ve built courses out before, right?
Molly Rose: 21:39
Stacy Jones: 21:39
Did you come to the table knowing how to build courses out or did you learn on the job and on the fly in order how to do that?
Molly Rose: 21:46
Good point. My advice to VAs is if you don’t know how to do something, you can figure it out, but don’t bill the client for those hours, and then build it for the client. I think there’s a lot of integrity that the VA needs to hold there, and just kind of open that communication, and it seems to work pretty well. In most cases, they probably are figuring it out on the job, but they’re doing what I just said for a lot of those extra tasks that you’re asking.
Stacy Jones: 22:15
So if they’re trying to actually figure it truly out, then they’re probably going to work a little bit extra on the side to get that done?
Molly Rose: 22:23
Yup. Yup. In my program, I talk about that with them. Like if you’re being asked to do something that you don’t know how to do, stop the clock, figure it out, and then start it again. Because then you’ll have it for all of your other clients.
Stacy Jones: 22:36
Right. It’s a resume builder. It’s a skills developer.
Molly Rose: 22:40
Yes. Absolutely. I also think that’s okay to tell the business owner. Like, “Hey, you know, I’ve never done this before, so I’m going to do it. Just take special eye to look at this for me.” That’s okay. Be willing as a business owner to give them that wiggle room to let go learn this and give them the opportunity.
Stacy Jones: 22:56
Some of the questions I’ve been asked before is if I would pay for classes for them to take to learn something as well, and then there’d be kind of something along those lines. How do you feel about that?
Molly Rose: 23:06
Yes. I’ve had this done for me several times. It’s really nice. Yeah, if there’s something that you have a VA for and you want them to learn and work for you in this capacity, completely okay to do. I probably wouldn’t, unless it’s really, really micro in your business, like a certain software that you use for only for your business or they’re never really going to use again, just ask them. “Hey, I’ll take care of this course for you, but would you be able to do this on your own time, like off the talk if that’s a need for you.” But if it’s something micro to your business that you really need-
Stacy Jones: 23:38
Have to have.
Molly Rose: 23:39
Of course. Compensate them for that training. But that’s always a really nice gift, just paying for courses so they can develop their skillset.
Stacy Jones: 23:47
Okay. Is there anything else in regards to business owners that they should keep in mind?
Molly Rose: 23:53
I think just if you’re on the fence, get a VA. Like, just do it. I think I heard this a few days ago, I was listening to someone speak about virtual assistants, and they said the same thing. They were a business owner and they were like, “If you’re thinking about it, just do it. Just do it because your business will completely change.” The industry is really growing with entrepreneurs and the VA market is growing as well, but I’m at a point almost where the demand for virtual assistants is so strong. Everyone that’s a business owner listening, your peers are doing this right and left, that my VA market is like I need more VAs. I need them. Yeah. It’s really important I think for you to scale, to grow, that you grow with a team, grow with the business owner.
Stacy Jones: 24:40
When you were talking a moment ago about you teaching your VAs and you know some of the things that you taught them along the way, can you explain the training that goes into prep these VA’s? It’s not just people off the street and you’re like, “Hey, I’m going to introduce you and set you up. See if it works.” You actually go in, and you help them learn, and you train them on some pretty specific skillsets.
Molly Rose: 25:02
Yes, absolutely. The program is six modules, walks them through identifying their skill set and service offerings and kind of getting that initial package together that a business owner can recognize and see. It doesn’t limit everything that they do, but kind of outlines their business. Then we teach them their marketing pack: Facebook, websites, everything that they need to put together for Linkedin, all that jazz.
Then it goes into their numbers. and this is where it really starts to affect the business owner down the road. It’s them being organized in their own business. Proposals and contracts, invoicing, invoicing system, how do they get paid? Is it easy? Is your pricing correct? All that’s covered.
Then communication, so onboarding your client. How do you guys communicate? Systems do you use that I mentioned earlier? Understanding their needs and your needs and making sure that there’s an open communication dialogue there. All of that’s addressed from their direction.
Then when I bring on a business owner, I discuss a lot of that as well, like making sure that you recognize all these things in your 30, 60, 90 days of onboarding them. Then a few more bonus modules and an outsourcing module for when they’re ready to have their own team if they kind of scale up a little bit.
Stacy Jones: 26:19
Where they could actually bring people in to work underneath them in the business?
Molly Rose: 26:24
Right. Yeah. Yes. They could do a lot with that as well, so that’s good. It is. The pairing that I do in my business is they have to have gone through my program. We do a really great vetting onboarding system, get their bio already, learn a lot about them, do a lot of interviewing with our team. Then we do the same thing for the business owner. We really tried to match very, very well from the beginning, the business owner to the virtual assistant.
Stacy Jones: 26:56 Okay. That’s awesome.
Molly Rose: 26:57
A very sweet relationship. Yeah.
Stacy Jones: 27:00
Well, you had mentioned that there is a guide that everyone can download. Can you share a little bit more details on that?
Molly Rose: 27:06
Absolutely. It’s called outsourceresource.co. That’ll just take you to the like downloadable two week guide that I discussed earlier for identifying all those tasks that you can take off your plate.
Stacy Jones: 27:18
Perfect. Can’t talk. If someone’s interested in hiring a VA, how can they find out more about you?
Molly Rose: 27:27
Yes. You can go to the academyforvirtual assistants.com and you’ll see a find a VA button there. It’ll walk you through everything you need to do to do an outsource and call with myself. Then we take it from there.
Stacy Jones: 27:40
Molly Rose: 27:41
Yes, it is.
Stacy Jones: 27:42
Very self explanatory.
Molly Rose: 27:43
Yes. I tried to make it easy so everyone can get a VA really quickly.
Stacy Jones: 27:47
Because everyone should.
Molly Rose: 27:49
Yes, they should.
Stacy Jones: 27:51
Any last words to our listeners today?
Molly Rose: 27:55
Just I hope that this guide helps you really identify what needs to be taken off your plate and really picture yourself doing less, and when the time comes to onboard someone new, just let go and breathe and trust me that a VA is going to take care of a lot of the nitty gritty tasks on your plate. I think go forth and have an amazing virtual assistant by your side.
Stacy Jones: 28:22
That’s fantastic. Well Molly Rose, thank you so much for joining us today, and listeners, thank you for joining, and listening in, and I hope that Molly Rose has been able to shed some light on how you can get some extra help around your office, or home, or wherever you might be working out of, all those places. Until next time, thanks for listening to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them and I’ll chat with you on our next podcast.
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