EP 117: Developing Simple And Effective Sales Strategies With Anthony Kirby | Marketing And Business Consultant

In this episode, Stacy sits down with marketing and business consultant Anthony Kirby to discuss his turnkey sales strategies that guarantee success.

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Stacy Jones: 00:00      

  • Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. I’m Stacy Jones, the founder of influencer marketing and branded content agency, Hollywood Branded.

Stacy Jones: 00:07               

  • This podcast provides brand marketers a learning platform for topics, first to Speaker share their insights and knowledge on topics which make a direct impact on your business today.

Stacy Jones: 00:16               

  • While it is impossible to be well-versed on every topic and strategy that can improve bottom line results, my goal is to help you avoid making costly mistakes of time, energy or money whether you’re doing a DIY approach or hiring and expert to help. Let’s begin today’s discussion.

Speaker 2: 00:31               

  • Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. Here is your host, Stacy Jones.

Stacy Jones: 00:35               

  • I’m so happy to be here with you all today. I want to give a very warm welcome to Anthony Kirby. He’s joining us to discuss his 15 years of experience in working in and developing marketing and sales strategies for coaches, consultants, and professional services. He’s worked with over 1,000 individuals and business owners to help them refine their direct response marketing and sales conversation strategies. In the last two years alone, he’s helped bring in an extra $200 million in additional revenue for his clients. He’s consulted with both smaller teams, as well as household name brands, and insists that regardless of the size of your company, the strategy is the same.

Stacy Jones: 01:07        

  • Anthony shares his passion for helping businesses develop simple sales processes and marketing strategies in his podcast #DifferenceMaker. Today we’re gonna talk about why the marketing offers you may be hoping people respond to just don’t convert from Anthony’s many years of experience and expertise. We’ll learn what has worked from Anthony’s experience, what maybe could be avoided if you’re doing this yourself, and where many people are missing the mark. Anthony, I am totally psyched to be talking to you as this is an area I have so much interest in, and learning more about, and I know our listeners do as well. So welcome and looking forward to chatting.

Anthony: 01:41           

  • Likewise, and what a great introduction, and I’ve got to say, that you have got the best podcast slash radio voice I think I’ve ever heard. Like it’s so perfect. I was like, wow, I really want to listen to this, and like hang on, she’s talking about me.

Stacy Jones: 02:00     

  • Well thank you.

Anthony: 02:00 

  • It sounded so impressive for a moment.

Stacy Jones: 02:02

  • Thank you, I really appreciate that. My mom and dad would be so proud.

Anthony: 02:05 

  • They would be.

Stacy Jones: 02:06    

  • Yeah.

Anthony: 02:06 

  • As would your English teacher for your annunciation of words. Mine, probably not so much.

Stacy Jones: 02:11               

  • Well, you know, you have a little bit more of a special accent.

Anthony: 02:17     

  • I do. [crosstalk 00:02:17]

Stacy Jones: 02:17               

  • Yes, so you want to tell a little bit more about yourself, why you have that special accent, because of where you’re calling in from, some more about your background, what you’ve been doing, what got you to where you’re at today.

Anthony: 02:28               

  • Absolutely, and yeah, it’s great to be here, and I really, really hope- and first of all I want to say get a pen and paper because people always listen to this stuff, and they go “Oh, I really want to write that thing down.” And then they forget and then I really want people to take this stuff away and go and do it, because it’s useful, listening to podcasts and actually take action. So that’s my first thing, but as a bit of a background, I’m calling in from Brisbane Australia. It is the middle of summer here, and it is hot. Like, I think it is about a hundred degrees outside right now, or thirty six degrees celsius, for those of you in the Celsius world.

Anthony: 03:01               

  • My background as you mentioned, I’ve spent the last fifteen years sort of honing my craft in the corporate space, and then on my own for the last four years with my own business, and we’ve been really, really fortunate to work with some amazing brands. I won’t be like every other person and name names because I respect the privacy of all my clients, but we’ve got some amazing results. We’ve done some great things. We’ve had lots and lots of fun along the way. I’ve been really fortunate and traveled the world doing this and spoken in many countries. In fact, I got an email yesterday. I’ve got a travel app that I use which kind of updates every time that I travel somewhere, and we’ve done one hundred and seventeen thousand kilometers in the last twelve months, and visited twenty six different cities. So that was pretty cool to see that stat.

Anthony: 03:46    

  • And really what led me here though, which is suppose is the important thing and it’s the biggest message I want to get across is, some years ago, I’m not that old, but when I was nineteen, I actually sat next to my dad as he died. And it was a really, kind of surreal moment, and it still shapes what I do every day, and what really struck me about my dad when he died, was that he was forty-eight years old.

Anthony: 04:11 

  • He had worked hard his whole life, exactly as we’re told to when we come through our education system and so on. He’d done everything right by the book, and as I was sitting there with him, as a nineteen year old, he just kept apologizing to me, and this is a guy that I’d looked up to my whole life. You know, he’s my mentor, he’s my dad, he’s my best mate. And he said, ” I’m really sorry that I’m not going to be there for your twenty-first birthday, and I’m sorry I’m not going to see your kids.” And I was like wow. And it makes me get goose bumps literally right now, because I saw a guy die with more dreams in his mind than memories in his heart. And I think one of my biggest missions, yes, I can teach marketing, yes I can show you how to convert more sales, but why?

Anthony: 04:56          

  • You know, at the end of the day the business is a vehicle for you, and sales a vehicle for some freedom that you’re looking to achieve. Whether that’s travel, time with your kids, health, whatever that might be for you individually. And so the biggest thing I want people to take away is that if you focus on really keeping at the forefront of your mind why you’re in business, not for money, not for clients, not for all of that stuff that we think it is, but like what is it really. If you keep that at the forefront of your mind, it’s a lot easier to make offers that are really authentic, and I know that’s a bit of a buzz-word right now, but it’s much easier to convert your market when they understand why you’re doing it, and they resonate with you and why you’re in the world rather than why your business is in the world.

Anthony: 05:34               

  • So that’s where I just wanted to start with is my background, because that’s what I’m really really passionate about is getting people in home in time for dinner with their kids, without them sitting at the dinner table worrying about their tax bill, or their next invoice, or the client who didn’t call back today. Like I just want people to go home and relax and be present with their families and have fun, and enjoy their life again. So, I think there’s so many of us that have forgotten that along the journey, cause we get so caught up in everything that’s going on in the world.

Anthony: 05:59            

  • Wow,

Stacy Jones: 06:01         

  • That makes absolute sense, and it’s fantastic that you actually have a passion that’s driving you and helping you help others find their own passion behind what they’re doing, really is what you’re saying.

Anthony: 06:12         

  • Yeah.

Stacy Jones: 06:12         

  • And, you know, when I was reading what you wanted to talk about, when we were first talking about this, and you said, Calls to action, offers that aren’t converting, you know, that’s something that is the very essence of every single piece, of any sort of marketing practice. Whether it’s PR, advertising, of any sort. At the end of the day you want someone to do an action, and if you don’t, and you’re not asking someone for that sale, for that purchase, to look at that website, to download the e-book, to do whatever that might be, there’s really no point to be doing what you’re doing.

Anthony: 06:53

  • Absolutely.

Stacy Jones: 06:54     

  • Can you tell us a little bit more about how you go about that? What is the approach? What are some of the best practices? And, enlighten us.

Anthony: 07:04     

  • Yeah, for sure. Let me start off with what is probably the non-fact of this, which is that three percent people in the market are ready to buy right now. Alright, that’s generally the agreed rule. I don’t know probably someone made it up, probably Ron Burgundy or someone, you know probably made it up. Great Anchorman reference. [crosstalk 00:07:21] hasn’t watched Anchorman.

Stacy Jones: 07:24   

  • Actually, I think it’s Chet Holmes who did research for that, or at least he publicized it, and with his work with Tony Robbins. That’s where that all came out with the floor and ceiling and the campaign, I think.

Anthony: 07:37       

  • Right, so yeah, so if we think about the market in that regard. If we think about there’s a hundred people that you can talk to, three of them are ready to press the button and buy something from you or somebody else in your marketplace, which leaves ninety-seven percent of the market who aren’t quite there yet.

Anthony: 07:55  

  • Now what most business owners do that I speak to, and I don’t know, you might be guilty of this if you’re listening to this, is that we create offers that are conversion offers at the front end. So they say things like download my thing, click this thing, like grab my book, come to my event, you know, whatever it might be, join my coaching program. And that works for a very small percentage.

Anthony: 08:17               

  • And then the rest of the market kind of sits there going, “yeah, we’re not there yet, so what about us?” And as business owners, it’s very easy for us to be focused on the revenue, focused on the results, of course, because again that’s what we’re conditioned to do, is be the provider. And so we kind of roll forward all the time saying, “geez I need more leads, I just need more leads, if I could get more leads I could get more sales.” And this is the kind of mentality that a lot of people have. And a classic example of this is someone that goes to the market and completes a PR campaign for example. They get all this traffic, they get all this website click, this website action, they get some op-ins, and they go, “Geez this is fantastic.” But they’re looking at the one side of the coin and they’re not seeing the constrains of what is left on the table.

Anthony: 09:04               

  • So, the way that I always work with businesses, is that we look at their, and it’s literally a piece of paper, we say right, if someone’s ready to buy, that’s fine. We take care of that, that’s going to happen, we don’t really need to worry to much about that. They’re going to drop over the line because that’s where they’re at in the buying process.

Anthony: 09:21        

  • What about if we take a step before that? If we were to sit down with this piece of paper and write down where a client is today, like let’s call it point A, and where do they want to be, is point B, which in our case is the purchase, or the result of that purchase, more specifically, the outcome. What would all those little micro-steps be between those points?

Anthony: 09:45  

  • For example, if someone right now is struggling to lose weight, okay, it’s such a massive industry. It’s a multi-billion dollar industry, probably a trillion dollar industry now. You know, someone’s walking down the street chewing on a Big Mac Burger, and they’re kind of like, geez life’s good, the sun’s shining, then all of a sudden they fall to the ground and they’ve got a pain in their chest. They just became to what we refer to in the marketing world as “Problem Aware.” Before that they didn’t have a clue. And so, there’s so many people in the market who know something’s not quite right, but they don’t yet know that you exist. They don’t yet know what the solution is, they don’t yet even understand what the hell’s going on for them. They’re just in pain. They’ve got this thing that’s going on. They’re experiencing a symptom, and so if we map that, and we say what is that symptom and how do we fix the problem for them before they buy. That’s the key, alright? And we do that for each step of that journey.

Anthony: 10:43               

  • So, for example, in that example of the person eating the Big Mac Burger, not that I’m endorsing McDonald’s or anything. They then lie in the floor saying, “Right, I’ve got a problem here, this is how I’m feeling.” So then someone comes up and asks them some questions and says, “Geez are you alright? I saw that you just fell over, how are you feeling? Are you okay?” And they stabilize the symptoms by asking some good questions, and giving some information. For example, the by-stander might say, “I think you might be having a heart attack, so let’s call you an ambulance.” Now what’s happened is the prospect, this is the person who’s on the ground is the prospect in this example, very strange example, but it works.

Stacy Jones: 11:22      

  • Okay.

Anthony: 11:25       

  • Is now solution aware. Because they’re saying, well alright what are my solutions here? I could lay on the pavement all day, that might work, and the pain might go away and I could stand up and continue on home, or somebody can call me an ambulance, or I can drive myself to the hospital. So they come up with all these solutions in their mind. And this is when they start to look into the market.

Anthony:  11:44       

  • This is when they start to touch your world. This is when they visit your website, and they start to say, “What can I do to fix this problem?” So then, if we can craft a solution to hold them in that part of the process, then again that’s building the trust and building the authority through that part of the process.

Anthony: 11:59   

  • The next part after that is that they then say, “Right, Okay, well I know what the solutions are, and I know what solution I want to go after, so now who can do this for me?” And this is where they become “Product Aware.” Alright, and if you want to read further into this by the way, amazing book, you probably can get it now, pretty sure someone’s reprinting it by now, which is “Breakthrough Advertising” by Eugene Schwartz, he first made this five levels of customer awareness famous back in like 1940-something. So this is not new stuff. This has been around for a very long time, and it won’t ever change, because this is how we work as humans.

Anthony: 12:36       

  • So once we become kind of “Product Aware” we say, “Right, the solution is I want to get in an ambulance, now who can get me the ambulance, like what kind of ambulances are there?” Right, and in Australia, we only have one, it’s called “The Ambulance Service” I don’t know about anywhere else in the world, but if there was multiple solutions, that’s when it would come down to your offer. Alright, so then it’s going to be, well there’s two solutions I like, which one’s got the best offer for me, which takes you all the way to the other end of awareness, which is where they want to make the choice. Okay

Stacy Jones: 13:07         

  • Okay.

Anthony: 13:07   

  • And so that’s where most people start there, and the miss out all the other stuff. Whereas if you could sit down, and say, right, how could I turn up in the marketplace and give value without freaking out about the fact that you’ve got competitors and people might see your information and all that sort of rubbish that we worry about. How can I go to the market and give all of this value so that people understand that I can solve their problem, right now, and in the future.

Anthony: 13:34               

  • And when we do that, that’s when we see more opt-ins, stronger attention, better list management, great nurture sequences, the ability to go to the market and add value without just pitching and smacking them over the head with a brick. And then when they are ready to buy, they come to you instead of you having to keep going to them, and that’s the important distinction. So we want to create this tribe of people who are running toward you saying, “Let me buy your stuff.” Rather than you having to go out to the market and wave your flag and say, “Hey, I’m over here, Hey, Hello, here’s my discount because I need some attention right now.” Which is a losing race. You’re in a race to the bottom. There’s no differentiation.

Anthony:  14:15               

  • And that’s really what most people are missing, and so my exercise, and I know I’m rambling a little bit here, but it’s such an important plan, I get very passionate about this stuff, is get yourself a sheet of paper and write down, what is everything your client would have to learn in order to do the thing that you do? And then start teaching them that. No different to podcasting, no different to anything else.

Stacy Jones: 14:40  

  • Are the very beginning, are you painting a picture and letting them see, the pain. Like actually helping them identify that they’re in pain, or are you directing this to someone who already is cognizant that they already have pain?

Anthony: 14:55    

  • Well you can do both. So if someone has not yet fallen on the pavement, so to speak, to use the same analogy, if someone’s just bought the burger, and they’re walking down the street, they are unaware. So, and this is the problem. It’s very, very, very difficult to make them feel like they’ve got a problem. And that’s the hardest part of marketing, in fact, that’s where the people get the really big bucks, when they write good copy. And they create these amazing adverts.

Anthony: 15:19    

  • Or they create a product, like Steve Jobs with the iPhone, or the iPod more specifically. You know, people didn’t know what they didn’t know, and then he suddenly came out and made us think we had a problem. And he said, “You know when you’re walking along the street, and you’ve got that bloody CD player hitting your hip while you’re trying to run, and it falls on the floor and your CD’s scratched, and blah blah blah blah blah. What about this little thing here and it’s got thousands of songs on it.” And everyone went, “Wow, we need it.” That was a great example of someone being completely unaware, and being forced into awareness.

Stacy Jones: 15:49         

  • Sure.

Anthony: 15:50    

  • So, it’s very tricky to do that, however, if someone is problem aware, which is mostly the case, if we have a business because we’re usually solving a problem. What you need to do is associate with that problem, not tell them what the problem is, they already know that they’ve got it. But, show them how to solve it. So in the case of, you know, someone who wants to get fit, you wouldn’t say, “Hey come and join the gym.” You’d say, “Have you thought about doing this one little thing for the next seven days, like drink more water.” And then someone starts to drink more water, what happens in seven day’s time Stacy?

Stacy Jones: 16:26               

  • They’re going to be automatically losing a little bit of weight because they’re more hydrated, and feeling better, and their skin’s going to be glowing.

Anthony: 16:33         

  • And they’re going to feel energized, and they’re going to go, “Ah, that worked, I wonder what’s next.” Because what you’re doing as you take people through this journey, is you’re building their confidence, and you’re building their own skill base.

Stacy Jones: 16:43     

  • Right.

Anthony: 16:44         

  • So then they feel confident, so then they make the choice by saying, “I’ve done all of this on my own, but you’re the one that supported me, so I’m going to come to you for the next step that I’m not sure of.”

Stacy Jones: 16:54   

  • Sure, and then that’s really what you’re doing is establishing expertise in an area, and making sure that you’re sharing the fact that you have this expertise, without shoving it down their throats.

Anthony: 17:03     

  • Absolutely, yeah.

Stacy Jones: 17:05    

  • Okay, so how do you go about it? What’s the best way? So what would you do as a brand manager, how would you tackle this?

Anthony: 17:16               

  • Yeah, so if I was sitting with a client, I would literally get a piece of paper.

Stacy Jones: 17:23     

  • It’s the magic paper.

Anthony: 17:24        

  • You know what’s funny, it so bizarre, so many people go like, what is that it? I’m like, yeah cause that’s where you have to start. I can go in and sell you some big fancy thing,  and we can draw it on the white board and do a seventy-four page pitch deck about what we need to do, or we could just get a white board and start drawing some pictures.

Stacy Jones: 17:45     

  • Perfect

Anthony: 17:45       

  • And just map it, and literally this is how you do it. So you almost reverse engineer it. So the first question is, what’s the thing we want the prospect to do before they buy? So that might be, like in a coaching sense, if you’re a coach, consultant agency, you probably need to get in a room or on a phone call with somebody.

Stacy Jones: 18:04      

  • Okay.

Anthony: 18:06   

  • So that’s the step immediately before you take their money, alright? So, in order to get someone on the phone, what do they need to believe? So that’s the next step. So then we’re reversing this process and then if we look at where they are, and where we want them to be, and we can pull together those steps by saying, “Alright, what will be the next step I’d have to learn?” What about the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. So that eventually it leads them to that natural conclusion of that process. And literally, this is not hard. This is a piece of paper, this is a white board with you and your team sitting around a table, this is at a café with a cup of coffee, and it sounds stupid to say this. I did this exercise once with a business owner, in a café, on a napkin, like literally, you know how big a napkin is, right?

Stacy Jones: 18:54        

  • It works. It’s a piece of paper.

Anthony: 18:57        

  • This guy left that meeting, he implemented the thing that we discussed, literally the next day. He did the exact thing that I told him, using this exact method. He added a hundred and fifty thousand dollars to his business. And he was out there telling me, “Kirby I need more staff, Kirby I need to process more of this stuff, Kirby I need to do this, I need to be cheaper, I need to have more products.” I’m like, “No, you do not, you need to simplify what you do and you need to do it well.” And this is a massive thing in business right now, everyone wants to do more. More, more, more, more, more.

Stacy Jones: 19:29      

  • And so to do it well, and to simplify, and not do more, more, more, more, more, you’re basically taking the building blocks you already have, and you’re just maybe restructuring them, and putting them in a sequence that’s going to lead to that sales closure success that you’re looking for.

Anthony: 19:46      

  • Yes, a conversion of existing prospects, so coming back to the hundred people that we started with, now instead, you still might get the three deals, but also now you might have thirty or forty people within the remaining ninety-seven who are like, geez we like this company, they’re good, they give lots of value. And that’s where you start to get them indoctrinated into your world. That’s what you want.

Stacy Jones: 20:11   

  • And then as they’re getting indoctrinated into your world, are you continually touching them? Are you following up? You’ve gotten them to, you know in the backwards napkin, backwards pieces of paper scenario that you’re talking about, really that very first step is that purchase of whatever, if we’re going backwards here, and then the step before you said, as a coach in a room or on a call, there is some filler in between that time too. It’s not necessarily that people are hell-bent on signing on, at least for me, they’re not always, like I don’t get off the phone and they’re like, “We’re on, yes!” It might take a little more follow up. Is there anything there that can be better built upon with call to actions, and conversions there.

Anthony: 20:58          

  • Yeah absolutely, and I’m going to switch slightly from marketing to sales conversion right now, and I’m going to literally give you the questions that I ask, and this is the same questions that I give to all of my clients, and it works really well, so feel free to go and borrow this and use it in your own businesses. You don’t have to like credit me or anything, just go do it and make money, and do some good in the world.

Anthony: 21:17            

  • So, I always ask the client, if it was you and I Stacy, and we’re having the conversation, and I say, “Stacy what’s the right next step for you?” And you’d tell me. You’d say, “Well, you know Kirby, I need to go and think about this.” Or I need to go and speak to my hubby, or whatever it might be, and I’d say, “Okay, no worries, so when do you think it would be a good time for us to talk again?” And literally there’s no magic to this stuff. We just forget the basics. We think that there’s some kind of bullet that we can build, where it’s like, Ah, we’ve got this magic powder and if we just sprinkle enough of it on this prospect, something magical is going to happen, and we’ll get a sale.

Stacy Jones:  21:56       

  • Right.

Anthony:  21:57         

  • And you know what? It doesn’t exist. And other gurus probably want you to believe that it does, and all the other people in the world who are selling the magic powder, they’re ain’t no magic kool-aid that people drink that makes a better business. There are basic communications with your clients, basic follow ups, and not being bloody lazy. So many people, classic right now is the Facebook advertising platform, because it’s so affordable, every man and his dog’s on there spending five dollars a day on rubbish adverts, killing it for the rest of us. No, only joking, but what they’re doing is they’re going out there and they’re saying, direct offer, direct offer, direct offer, because they’ve got this opinion that it’s beyond them to have a sales conversation now.

Anthony: 22:44        

  • Or, they’re scared of having a sales conversation because they think it’s hard, and it’s really not. The sales conversation is just, “hey prospect tell me what’s going on for you right now, and tell me what success would look like for you in x amount of time from now.” That is literally a sales conversation. It doesn’t have to be any more difficult than that. Well you know, success for me Stacy, would be that this podcast would go really well, and we’d get lots of listeners, and we’d get some new subscribers for you, and blah, blah, blah, blah. Alright, well how do we do that? Here’s the steps we’re going to take.

Anthony: 23:12         

  • And then you help them, I know this is a novel concept for a lot of people. We help the prospect without any expectation of money. And guess what generally happens? People say-

Stacy Jones: 23:25      

  • They give you money.

Anthony: 23:27          

  • Exactly. It’s some kind of magic, I don’t know, but people generally go, wow that’s really helpful, thank you so much. And the law of reciprocity kicks in and they say, what can we do to help you now? And you say, well let’s work together. And then it’s up to you then to talk about whether your value is in the right place, and you know, help the client with any sort of budget constraints, and payment plans, and be flexible in your approach to that end result with the client, to help them get the result that you need for them.

Stacy Jones:  23:55  

  • And a lot of this comes down to then, also, is phrasing. Coming up with ways of literally asking for the sale.

Anthony: 24:02      

  • Yeah.

Stacy Jones:                24:03     

  • And that’s a key piece that a lot of people might be missing with that step of sitting down, chatting, and then actually seeing the sales happen.

Anthony: 24:12      

  • Like, here’s a tough one. “Hey Stacy, would you like my help with this?” I mean, come on, like don’t everyone fall over at once cause I know that’s a big statement. That is the simplest close you’ll ever hear. And is it harsh? Is it hard to ask that? Absolutely not. If you are in rapport with someone, you’ve spent time in a conversation with someone on the phone, on Zoom, on Skype, in a meeting together at a restaurant, whatever. And you say, can I help you with this? What are they going to say? Yes, no, not yet.

Stacy Jones: 24:46          

  • Right.

Anthony: 24:47    

  • Right, that’s called clarity, and clarity’s important because you know what to say next.

Stacy Jones: 24:51      

  • And, you’re not going to spin your wheels if they say no.

Anthony: 24:54      

  • Correct, yeah, and also, I think, I don’t know if you find this, Stacy and if you’ve observed this in your business and in your dealings, people take no so personally, like how dare they say no to me. Instead of seeing it as a learning opportunity and saying, why are you saying no to me? Like let me understand why do you don’t see me as the fit.

Stacy Jones: 25:15        

  • Right.

Anthony: 25:15   

  • Because then it could be something so simple like, ah Kirby you talk too quick. You know, it could be that, well okay, well if I slowed down would that work for you? Yes. Alright, no worries, let’s do that. Or Kirby we just don’t like you because you’re enthusiastic. How dare you be enthusiastic, you’re making my leadership feel terrible. So look, I think, asking the question, there is a massive learning there for everybody. And taking them as really constructive. I always just say no means not yet. You just haven’t done enough to demonstrate value, or you haven’t met them where they are in their mind.

Stacy Jones: 25:52       

  • Right, okay

Anthony: 25:53               

  • That’s it, yeah.

Stacy Jones:  25:55       

  • That’s simple enough.

Anthony: 25:57        

  • It really is.

Stacy Jones: 25:58              

  • You said before that this is a simple idea, and a simple way to put into effect and you are right. People definitely make it a lot harder, I know I do.

Anthony: 26:09       

  • Should I tell you what’s funny about this, Stacy? I don’t know how many people will listen to this show, I assume that it’s going to be a few, right?

Stacy Jones: 26:14  

  • At least a few.

Anthony: 26:15    

  • Yeah, and look, if you don’t go and get that piece of paper and do this exercise, just purely to understand your client journey more, like you’ve got rocks in your head. Because this is the simplest business growth strategy in the world, and you don’t need to go and spend more money on it. It’s literally pen, paper, ten minute exercise, make more money. That’s it. It’s that simple.

Stacy Jones: 26:38  

  • The magic genie in the bottle.

Anthony: 26:40 

  • Yeah. But, you know like the genie’s always been released. It’s been around for hundreds of years. We just forgot it because we get caught up in this technical babble crap.

Stacy Jones: 26:50   

  • You know you’ve covered ten minutes, that’s all you need to do. You’ve said that, what the strategy is, you’ve laid it out, step one, step two, right, get from point A to point Z and fill in the blanks along the way. So, is this something that you feel is better for a team to do together? Or a business to do by themselves, or to do with just a friend, and just so that you have a sounding board? What’s the best way to approach?

Anthony: 27:17       

  • It obviously depends on the business size first, of course. In examples where we’ve done this in a corporate environment with teams up to a hundred people, or a hundred and sixty people in some examples, what we do is we get everyone to do their own version, and then we compare them. Cause that’s also a really interesting litmus test, which demonstrates how well your team is aligned to the outcome of the business.

Stacy Jones: 27:41   

  • Okay.

Anthony: 27:42      

  • So it almost becomes a separate exercise that stems from there. Because if you’ve got three or for managers, or team leaders, or team reports, in a room and you give them all a piece of paper and you say write down all the steps you think our clients have to learn or understand before they can buy from us. And you then come together and you white board it, or you chart it out on a wall, or a window, a piece of glass or whatever, and often times you see everyone going, oh, this is getting awkward, cause you know, we should probably know this stuff. We’ve been doing it for x amount of years. You know, we should be stronger at this. And what generally ends up happening is they realize that when they come into alignment and they agree on one path for the client, and then they all start to talk that language, they all start to tell that story, all start to deliver that to the marketplace, guess what happens? More money.

Stacy Jones: 28:34

  • For everyone.

Anthony: 28:35       

  • It’s all there because everyone’s speaking the same language.

Stacy Jones: 28:38      

  • Plus they’re all on the same page then.

Anthony: 8:40        

  • Correct. Let’s switch that to the other side of the coin though, if someone’s starting a business or they’re a solo-prenuer, or a very small team, two or three staff, sit down and do this exercise. If it’s day one for you and your business, if it’s not even day one, if in two weeks you’re going to go in your office and quit your job, and you’re going to tell your boss to shove it up his bum-bum, and you’re going to go and run on your own and say I’m going to go and take on the world, well good on you, but, go and do this exercise. So then in two weeks time when you go and do all that, you can be in your market with precision in your client’s mind as a newbie in the market. You don’t need to be a guru, you don’t need to have six million followers on Facebook.

Anthony:  29:22    

  • You gotta tell the market that you understand their problem better than they understand it themselves. If you are about to start your business or you are new in your business, please take the time to do this. Because if you go to the doctor with a sore throat, the doctor will ask you questions, and you will trust the doctor because you assume that they know more about it than you, because they can ask you better quality questions.

Stacy Jones:  29:41               

  • Right.

Anthony: 29:41               

  • So there’s a great quote by Wyatt Woodsmall, the quote goes something like, and I’m paraphrasing because I’m terrible with my memory. It’s basically when you can explain the client’s problem to them better than they can explain it to themselves, they will automatically assume that you have the solution.

Stacy Jones:  29:59     

  • Of course, because you have this whole level of expertise that’s being given to you, and people always doubt themselves, and one of the reasons they’re hiring on agencies, and experts to come on board is often times to help them understand what is wrong, even if the already have the solution.

Anthony: 30:16               

  • Absolutely, and to take this one step further, because I know that so many people who listen to this will be like, ah, but I’m not ready for that, I’m not big enough for that, and you’ve got this thing called imposter’s syndrome, where you think you’re like a fraud in the marketplace, and you get all scared. Just remember this, you only need to know one more thing than the person that you help.

Stacy Jones: 30:34       

  • Yeah.

Anthony: 30:34  

  • Because that’s the thing they want solved. You don’t have to be the wealth, you don’t have to be the Oracle, you don’t have to be bloody Yoda, you’ve just got to be one step ahead of where your client is in the journey, and that will still be helpful to them. [crosstalk 00:30:46] or skills.

Stacy Jones: 30:48   

  • Yeah or even just be really good at asking questions to help them actually find where that journey is, because sometimes your client just needs a sounding board to be able to talk to and hear things back from. And also not to feel like they’re alone because they’re making big decisions that are scary, and they might want someone to hold their hand.

Anthony: 31:06          

  • Absolutely, and that’s okay. And one of the other things I say a lot, is that you need to eat every week in business. So let me just explain real briefly what I mean by that.

Stacy Jones: 31:18 

  • Not a hamburger though, right? Not McDonald’s.

Anthony: 31:20               

  • Well, that depends. McDonald’s is okay if you just want it once in a month or whatever.

Stacy Jones: 31:23               

  • Okay.

Anthony: 31:24     

  • But don’t eat it every day people, it’s probably not good for you.

Stacy Jones:  31:26     

  • Okay.


  • Please McDonald’s don’t sue me for that statement, I didn’t mean no malice. I love your Big Mac’s.

Anthony: 31:35  

  • I forget where I was going with that point now, its crazy. See what happens when you get me up in the morning in Australia? I’m just full of energy, I’ve had my breakfast, I’m just ready to go. When people go to the market they want to make all of their sales at once, like the squirrel collecting their nuts before winter. Alright? What we need to do is recognize that your clients are going to buy all year long. Generally speaking, even if there’s seasonal trends of course, they’re still going to be buying. So what you have to do is just respect where they might be on their journey, have enough patience that you might sell to them in a month instead of in a week, and once you’ve shifted your mindset and you can soften your approach in that, again that’s going to help your conversion, because the client’s going to feel respected. And I love that you took me to that point with that statement that you made that sometimes people just need someone to hold their hand.

Stacy Jones: 32:25 

  • Yeah, it helps a lot. Reassurance, really is great, and especially if you’re a client, I think that’s at a decision making level. You’re making decisions, whether you own the business, or whether you report in to someone above you a board of directors, or you know, someone in the C-suite, or your fellow members of the C-suite. You don’t want to necessarily come in with something that hasn’t been a little bit felt around to make sure that it’s a solid idea that people aren’t going to laugh at, or doubt. It all helps.

Anthony: 33:01      

  • Absolutely.

Stacy Jones: 33:03        

  • Okay. So is there any category, any brand, any marketer, any individual where this wouldn’t work for?

Anthony: 33:16     

  • No. I think if you sell to somebody, this will work for anybody. Think about it from a psychology perspective. Is everybody ready to buy? No. Are there some people who don’t even know they need to buy? Yes. So this will work, regardless of what you sell in the world. I mean I’ve got clients as diverse as people who sell apples and oranges and pears. Literally fruit shops. I’ve got food stores, I’ve got physial therapists, I’ve got coaches, we’ve got massive corporations that we work with. I’m talking about literally brands that everyone’s probably got sitting on their desktop. So, this works at every single level and I don’t exaggerate that point. If you can think through this journey, like, if someone wants to come and buy fresh fruit and vegetables.

Anthony: 34:02   

  • Let me use this example just to illustrate how crazy this point is. People think, yeah it’s consumable, they’ll just come in when they need some bananas. Not true. Why are the coming in? To buy bananas because they want to feed their family nutritious food. Why do they want to feed their family nutritious food? Step it back, well probably because somewhere in the past they might have been obese, there might have been someone else in the family who had some health problems, so on, so on, so on, so on, so on. Okay.

Anthony: 34:29               

  • When you go to the market, even as a fruit and vegetable supplier, you’ve got your little corner store in the city, you know you’re turning over two hundred thousand dollars a year, and you go to Facebook, and you say, hey I just want to give you guys five recipes that work well for my family. From my family business to your family, so you can eat better, I just want to give you these five recipes. And these might be people that don’t buy from you, but you go and show that to your local community, by the way of a sponsored ad, and people download your free recipes from your website, and they start to make that recipe. Now suddenly they’ve got brand awareness of who you are and the fact that you do talk about fresh quality, and you do support the local farmers and so on and so forth. That is the exact same thing in motion as it would be for Nike or Apple or any of those brands, so it works at every level.

Stacy Jones: 35:24        

  • I mean it really even works if you want to take it down to the simplest level of relationships, you’re not going to go out to the girl or guy down the street and ask them to marry you before you’ve actually done all those steps in-between to lead them up to that act.

Anthony: 35:40  

  • Yeah, you know what’s funny, I normally talk about this, I call it the “Bar Test.” So, actually this is a good point to make, so again, thank you for leading me to this actually, what a great host.

Stacy Jones: 35:52      

  • Sure.

Anthony: 35:55    

  • When you create an “offer” and I say that with inverted coma-

Stacy Jones: 35:58      

  • Hypothesis.

Anthony:  35:59       

  • That’s the one, yeah, because this may or may not relate to you, but when you create an offer, and you relate it to the bar test- so the “Bar Test” is this, if we walked into a bar, and we said to a lady or a man, “Hey you look great, let’s go home together.” Maybe one in a thousand would say, “Yeah let’s go” because of the modern age that we’re in, you know Tinder and all that stuff, fantastic.

Stacy Jones: 36:24               

  • It could be the three percent, you don’t know.

Anthony: 36:26         

  • There you go, right, the three in a hundred that we talked about at the beginning of the show. Chances are though, you’re either going to get a drink thrown over your head or a slap in the face, or maybe a bit of both, okay. So, instead think about your offer like, alright well how would we approach the female or male, if we just wanted to gain some attention, to make some eye contact. How would we do that? And that’s how you need to think about your marketing. You need to step people through the dating process until you get married. It’s such a good point, and it’s such a good analogy cause everyone understands it, cause we’ve all been there.

Stacy Jones:  37:04     

  • A hundred percent. Absolutely, and I’ve experienced I think, everything that you’ve described because there are people who will just walk up and say that.

Anthony: 37:14

  • Yeah.

Stacy Jones:  37:15  

  • And it does not work out well.

Anthony:  37:17   

  • No, and welcome to modern marketing, right?

Stacy Jones: 37:19 

  • Right.

Anthony:  37:20    

  • Where the bar to entry is so low that everybody can walk in at the bar and ask the question and not be worried about the response because they’re just going to throw another five dollars at the kitty.

Stacy Jones: 37:29      

  • And all of this really transcribes across digital, across traditional advertising, across any sort of conversation you’re having with your customer base.

Anthony: 37:39        

  • Absolutely, yeah, and even you know, everyone’s forgotten this term called direct mail. Because everyone’s so like fixated in like let’s do a Facebook Ad, or a Google Ad-words Campaign, because it sounds good and it’s like buzz-wordy. But you know what, how often have you written a letter or a postcard to a client that is already in your world and said, “Hey I was just thinking about you, I saw this article in the newspaper, I just thought I’d clip it out because it was referencing something we talked about. Hope you’re well.” When was the last time you did that? When was the last time you picked up the phone and spoke to the last ten customers who transacted and said, “Hey we just love having you in our world, and outside of that how’s it going for you?” Like, very few businesses have done that. Even big businesses. Because again, we’re fixated on the next level. We’re fixated on the next lead, the next kill as harsh as that sounds. You know, that’s the business we’re in now.

Stacy Jones:  38:37               

  • Well, it tuns it into, instead of being, you know what you started talking about at the beginning of this podcast, of you know, there’s a benefit of giving it away. There’s a benefit of making people feel like they actually want to give you more, because they receive so much value and benefit from you. And you have that energy exchange, going back and forth and back and forth, where there’s actually growth and value there verses it just being one-sided and a pull of a negative force where you feel like your soul’s being sucked away.

Anthony: 39:09           

  • Yeah. Absolutely, and to take that to a different level, look at the second largest search engine in the world is YouTube. Alright, so if your prospect has a problem, chances are if they had enough time and enough inclination, to go and stitch the puzzle together, they could go to YouTube, and find ninety percent of what you teach probably, or what you do. But they probably can’t do it. So I always have this thought of, people don’t always pay you for information, but they will always pay you for implementation.

Stacy Jones:  39:45               

  • Right.

Anthony: 39:45           

  • And what I mean by that is either for you to do it for them or for you to guide them through it. Always. Because that’s where they get stuck. Because they don’t have the ten years of experience. They understand it. They might understand on the theoretical side, they might have a notepad full of notes from YouTube videos on how to use Google Ad-words, or how to Photoshop a picture of a horse onto a cow or something ridiculous, but the person who’s been in Photoshop, and touched all the buttons for the last ten years, and knows how to do all those things. Fade the brush and all that stuff, you can tell I’m a Photoshop expert with that very technical assessment.

Anthony: 40:20        

  • You know, you can go and pay someone to do all that and the implementation aspect, and it would save you the time, and the money, and the effort, and the heartache, that doesn’t mean you can’t do it. And this is the same thing with our prospects. A lot of the time they understand it, and often times, they’ve researched the product more than you know. They might know more about a single product than you know about your product because you’ve got a whole range to remember. So don’t forget that people will always pay to have your assistance. That’s generally what they’re paying for.

Stacy Jones: 40:48       

  • Right. They’re paying you in order to not have to spend the energy and time to do it themselves.

Anthony:  40:53         

  • Absolutely, yeah.

Stacy Jones:  40:55               

  • Even if they think they could do it better sometimes.

Anthony: 40:58        

  • Exactly. Yeah. Podcasting is a classic example of that. You know, like podcast editing. You could sit there and edit your podcast. You could put this episode together, we’ve only made about three or four mistakes.

Stacy Jones: 41:09           

  • Yep.

Anthony: 41:10   

  • So you could probably easily go and put that into GarageBand, or Audacity, or ProTools or whatever it is. Chop the little bits out, and make it sound good. Or you could not mess around with it and give it to someone who does that every single day. And then you could focus more on interviewing guests.

Stacy Jones: 41:24           

  • Correct. And that is what I choose to do.

Anthony: 41:28   

  • Yeah. Yeah, exactly the same.

Stacy Jones: 41:32        

  • Okay, is there any other advice you want to leave our listeners with today? Because you’ve been plentiful with ideas.

Anthony: 41:42

  • The one thing I want to leave everyone with, and it’s a very simple one. I’ve got one core value in my business, which is, always leave everybody better than you find them. So whatever you’re going to go and do after this show, whether you implement or not, at least go into the world and ask someone how their day is going. Open a door for somebody. Buy someone a coffee. Listen to somebody in their full presence without your phone beeping.

Anthony: 42:10          

  • Do something that’s going to make someone else feel great about their day, because then they’ll go and do it to somebody else, and I think that’s really, right now, what we need more of in the world is nice. We need more leadership. We need more people to step up and say, you know what the world is not a bad place, regardless of what the newspapers and the tabloids, and the TV stations would like us to believe. Yeah, so go and spread some good and be a difference maker as I would call it. And make sure you leave everyone in your world better than you find them in the next twenty four hours and beyond. I’d love it if you’d do it everyday, but just, you know, just today, just make sure you’re aware of that in your world.

Stacy Jones: 42:47     

  • Well that falls absolutely into your core belief of providing expertise and help and assistance without expecting anything in return as well.

Anthony: 42:58     

  • Yeah.

Stacy Jones: 42:59    

  • I mean your background, you were working for other companies doing sales, and you had a variety, quite a variety of different companies that you worked for, that led you, and not over that massive amount of time, before you started your coaching business. And that’s really impressive.

Anthony: 43:16

  • Yeah, and look. Coaching is such, I mean I don’t really coach anyone now, I more train them on this stuff.

Stacy Jones: 43:23           

  • Right.

Anthony: 43:24               

  • And then there’s a bit of coaching if they want like a bit of support.

Stacy Jones: 43:26               

  • Well when I say training, coaching, the seminars, yeah.

Anthony: 43:31  

  • But yeah, I mean I think for me, again, all stemming back from my dad’s death, life is short. You know, when my son was born, when he was six months old, I was like I’m out of corporate, I’ve got to spend more time with my kids. And look, I haven’t always got it right, you know I got sucked into the vortex of running my own business, and traveling the world, and all that stuff. And I missed out on a few things. But, you know I’ve got the balance right now, and I really enjoy it. And I love what I do. I mean, I’m deeply passionate about helping people.

Stacy Jones: 44:06         

  • Right.

Anthony: 44:06    

  • And, right now I just feel like the best kept secret in the world. Like I firmly believe, I was in Miami a couple of weeks ago actually with a master-mind, and everyone’s like, you know so much stuff about this. Like how are you not bigger? And I said, “It’s not about that for me, I don’t want to be like if I end up on a stage with the greats, fantastic.” But more important to me is, when I get a message, like yesterday morning I got a message from someone saying, “Hey I just wanted you to know that I’ve been able to spend the last year and a half with my kids because of the stuff you taught us.”

Stacy Jones: 44:41     

  • Right.

Anthony: 44:41              

  • I was like, wow. That’s so amazing for me, cause at the end of the day you don’t remember how much money you made. You don’t remember how many days you went traveling the world and speaking on stages, you remember like, you know what did I see my kid playing in the sandpit? You know, like I’ve been there and I’ve seen that in my dad. My dad taught me the greatest lesson I could ever learn in life by seeing him, by being around him in his dying days. It was the greatest lesson I’ll ever get. And I firmly, actually believe that he died because the universe or whatever you believe in, I recon they sacrificed my father, and it’s really weird to say this, but I actually believe that he sacrificed his life so that I could do what I’m doing right now and impact the world in a bigger way.

Stacy Jones: 45:29   

  • That’s awesome.

Anthony: 45:29    

  • Because if he didn’t die, I wouldn’t have left the UK.

Stacy Jones: 45:32               

  • Right.

Anthony: 45:32         

  • I would have still been there, doing my job. I wouldn’t have even known this world ever existed, cause you just, its just another part of life over there.

Stacy Jones: 45:40               

  • Right.

Anthony: 45:41      

  • So everyday I’m grateful in the weirdest possible way. That we went through that together, and I see it as such a positive, that he passed away. And I know he’d be in a better place, whatever that looks like, on the other side, we don’t know but what I do know is that he has led me on a path of self discovery and helping others that I don’t think can be ignored in my lifetime, and I don’t think it will be forgotten after I’m gone either.

Stacy Jones: 46:10               

  • That’s really powerful. So, if someone wants to contact you, if they want to learn more, I bet you have something that they could download, or contact, or look at. Do you want to share a little bit more about that?

Anthony: 46:25        

  • Absolutely. I’m a massive giver of value, as you’ve probably ascertained from this conversation. So if you go to AnthonyKirby.com on that website there is a plethora, what a great word, a plethora of guides, blogs, videos, trainings. You can actually get a free downloadable copy, digital copy of my best selling book, which is twelve chapters of like marketing gold. Which covers actually a lot of the stuff we’ve covered today. It tells you how to write sales letters that convert, it talks about Facebook Ads and custom audiences, and all of the stuff that is really relevant right now, and it’s completely free on my website. AnthonyKirby.com. And say good day to me on social media.

Anthony: 47:08   

  • I love talking to people as you can tell. And there’s nothing that lights me up more than hearing that I’ve made a difference, so if I’ve made a difference for you, send me a message and say, “Hey Kirby, you talk real quick but you made a difference so happy days.” And I’d love to hear that feedback cause it’s really, really important, and I’m sure Stacy would love to hear it about the show too. Because she does a great job putting this together for you guys.

Stacy Jones: 47:31               

  • Oh, you’re so kind, thank you. I appreciate that, but now I know that I’m about to whip out a piece of paper after we end this podcast and start drawing on it myself. So that would be a little activity that I have, cause I know that there are many things that we can always do to improve upon for our agency. And, you know you really have given a lot of really solid advice, and a lot of things that we can take action on, and all of the listeners I’m sure feel the same way so thank you so much for your time today I really do appreciate it.

Anthony: 48:03    

  • You’re very welcome, thanks for having me Stacy.

Stacy Jones: 48:05               

  • Of course. Have a great day.

Anthony:  48:08         

  • I will, you too!

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Marketing Mistakes and How To Avoid Them Reviews 

Must-Listen For Every Brand Marketer (And Owner)

This should be required listening for everyone who owns a business, works in marketing, or is interested in the business of entertainment. Great stuff!

The Best Marketing Podcast Ever!

Stacy is a brilliant branding strategist and she really knows how to bring out the best in her guests! This show is fun AND educational! If you’re looking to understand the world of marketing, branding, digital marketing, influencer marketing and more, look no further. This show has awesome insight into some of the greatest marketing minds out there today, and they provide practical advice you can use in your business today. #FanForLife

Awesome podcast for all marketers!

Keep them coming

Practical and pointed advice.

Stacy does a really great job making this a highly actionable podcast for business owners. With a focus on marketing, she covers a wide range of related topics as well and is always very specific with her questions so that the listener gets pointed advice instead of vague concepts to take away. It’s also really helpful to the hear the why behind any marketing tactic so that we can decide if something sounds like a good fit for where we are at in this moment.

Love this marketing podcast!

Lori has a way of finding new insights to share every week. I loved being a guest, but I enjoy hearing her many fascinating conversations with other marketers even more. Great show!

I love Stacey Jones!

I absolutely loved being on this podcast! Stacey is amazing – real, down to earth, and genuinely curious and interested in learning – this makes for a very engaging conversation and valuable podcast!

Thank you for your podcast! I LOVE IT

I just listened to the episode named Insights To Product Placement Brand Marketers Need To Know, and I really enjoyed every minute of it! There are so many ways to approach product placement in a manner that provides wins for many – and it is not always driven by money. I am looking forward to listening to more!

Stuff we need to know!!

Anyone who is in business should be listening to this podcast! Incredible insights and advice.

Such a wealth of knowledge! 🧠

This is one of the most insightful podcasts that I have ever come across! Stacy does such a great job of sharing her wisdom and I love how she leads meaningful conversations with guests who bring so much experience to the table. Highly recommend checking this show out – you won’t be disappointed!

Awesome Podcast!!!

Stacy, host of the Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them) Podcast, highlights all marketing and more in this can’t miss podcast! The host and expert guests offer insightful advice and information that is helpful to anyone that listens!
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