EP370: SEO Strategy to Safeguard and Elevate Your Online Presence With Joseph DeVita | Moving Traffic Media

Stacy Jones: Welcome to marketing mistakes and how to avoid them. I’m Stacey Jones, and I’m so happy to be here with you all today, and I want to give a very warm welcome to Joseph DeVita.Stacy Jones: Joe is one of the managing partners at moving traffic media and Internet marketing agency, focused on search marketing, social media and display advertising.

Stacy Jones: Joe has spent over years working to revolutionize digital marketing and driving business growth, and he currently oversees operations with his expertise stemming from a decade at sapient razorfish, working with renowned clients like Marriott hotels and various fortune. companies.

Stacy Jones: Today Joe and I are going to be chatting about how to lead with SEO strategy before optimize your website so that you can guarantee success versus accidentally losing all of your digital status. You work so hard to gain.

Stacy Jones: We’ll learn what works from Joe’s perspective, what should be avoided, and how some businesses miss the mark.

Joe D: Joe, welcome, so happy to have you here today. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be with you. It’s a very impressive podcast you, you put together. And I’ve listened to a lot of them, and your guests are incredibly knowledgeable. I’m sure you I’ll try to keep the bar that I’ve that your previous guests have set. We have had some fantastic guests through the years. And yes, it’s amazing how much opportunities I’ve actually had to learn. And

Stacy Jones: having you on happens to be. And I’ve learned this so much in life that you know things show up when they need to in your life. And that’s so true for me. With my podcast guess we are undergoing

Stacy Jones: or about to a website redesign. So I’m looking forward to hearing all the things that I need to not do. So we don’t crap it out and ruin all of the success we have had with SEO over the years, although I know that we have lots of areas to improve. So thank you for being my teacher as well as all of our listeners teachers today.

Stacy Jones: So how did you get here? You know you’ve had over years working in digital agencies. I know you and your partner met each other along the way. spent quite a long time working together before you decide to leave and start this. But how did this all come to be?

Joe D: I was

Joe D: I was living in Colorado at the time. I took like a minimum wage job at a e-commerce startup like basically in a warehouse and answering phones. And I really, I love that. I was like I I had some great bosses at the time, and they were like willing to teach me things that they knew about e-commerce years ago, like when Yahoo was the big search engine.

Joe D: They put a lot of trust in me. I stayed with this start up for about years, ended up managing a small team and just learning learning a ton. so fell into my lap. Kind kind of, you know. A year after I spread to finish my undergrad

Joe D: well, and then off you get. And you said, May. First is, when you guys came together to start this company. Yeah, on May first, ,, my partner and I. We kind of signed our partnership agreement. On that same day we hired our first employee, so we call May first, ,, the first day of the company being in business. But he and I were trying to build things something on our own

Joe D: for about a year before we realize we should just do this together.

Stacy Jones: And so you came together, decided to work together. And SEO kind of is that special spot that you have.

Joe D: Well, that’s my actually, that’s my partner, especially my. It’s more on the paid media side. So paid search display advertising in social. So you know, we’ve got a, you know, couple of dozen clients now, about half of them our Sto clients. The other half is paid, Media, so I can. I have worked in both as he has. But he is our chief, CEO. I’m more of the I’m more of his team peer leader when it comes to the

Stacy Jones: okay. And so when you guys are working together and coming together with a client for the first time, how do you start? How do you start figuring out if they’re doing things right or wrong.

Joe D: Yeah, it’s pretty. We have a standard approach, we we it’s a we, you know, the contract get signed in the first meeting we put on our clients. Calendar is A is like a discovery call where we we build a engagement brief. So the engagement, brief, has like questions, and it starts with like, What are your what are your marketing goals? What are your Kpis? Who are your competitors? Why are you different. And at the, you know, you get to the

Joe D: bottom dozen questions. And it’s about the technology you’re using. What platform is your website on what systems do you use to measure success? so we, you know, it’s it’s a long first conversation. It’s min of like Q. A. And usually great conversation. You know, the first time we talk to someone about your business, it’s usually a really exciting conversation. So we take a lot of notes like the whole team joins this call the most.

Joe D: Obviously our the team. Our team is just listening, and John and I asking the questions,

Joe D: but we create an engagement brief, out of that first conversation which kind of like summarizes everything we heard, and that becomes like the like the Bible we use to onboard all new teammates and

Joe D: something we update throughout the years, too, when we we like to hold on the clients as long as possible. So the engagement brief is the first deliverable. We write it into our sow. It’s such a big project for us.

Stacy Jones: Okay?

Joe D: And so you’ve done this.

Joe D: So no, it’s it’s an SEO only client. If it’s at like there is our, we build our Sdo program around

Joe D: like big strategic deliverables. the first is usually a technical audit of the website. So this is

Joe D: this is like a multi point checklist that we go through to make sure your site is probable to search engine spiders. We try to find anything that may be slowing down your site, actual like the site speed. But we also look at like, where is content. Hiding that search engines can’t find So the technical audit is is usually our first big presentation.

Joe D: we try to get it done in the first month, and we so we present it to the client, usually with their technical teams, all at the same time. And we say, you know, we’ve found

Joe D: opportunities to improve the quality of your website.

Joe D: so we isolate the opportunity. We say, here’s our recommendation for fixing it. And at the end of the presentation we give a score of all the we found. We kind of score it to help organize the next months of working together. So we say, like, what is going to be the easiest to implement

what’s going to be the

Joe D: quickest to have an impact. So we we’ve got this like proprietary method of scoring opportunities. and that’s the first big deliverable. The second one is keyword research sometimes that the client is like in a like we got to move fast. We got to move back. We’ll we’ll

Joe D: we’ll bring in a bigger team at the beginning of the engagement to do the keyword research alongside the the technical audit. But keyword research basically is

Joe D: we try. We, we put a recommendation on what keywords they should be

Joe D: focused on optimizing toward for the next year. Usually, it’s you know, we do engage with one year at a time. So that is it. It’s First of all we see. What’s your website ranking for already. Then we from our engagement brief, we know your competitive set. We see what

Joe D: words your competitors are ranking for. And we, you know, do some custom analysis to say of everything you’re ranking for, and your competitors are ranking for. We think you should focus on this number of keywords for large sites that listed in , target keywords. For smaller. It can be or keywords. When you say, a larger site, like, how many website pages is that like, what does that

Joe D: like a big e-commerce site with thousands of skews?

Joe D: So it’d be like, you know, category words, subcategory words, specific products. So sometimes it does get into the fives. Our biggest e-commerce plan. I think our target keyword list is about keywords. Okay? And then for most companies, what is the typical?

Stacy Jones: But more than .

Joe D: Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, if you only have, if you have a small website with pages. You you’re probably not gonna rank. Well, you could rank for a hundred, but maybe only are important to you.

Stacy Jones: Do you need to have a different page for every keyword that you’re trying to rank for?

Stacy Jones: What do you do next? So your keyword, your long tail keywords anything that someone would use to Google, your company or not necessarily your company. But what your company provides yourselves. Yeah, I’ll try and give you the I like what that month engagement looks like with us. The technical audit produces a ton of work.

Joe D: There’s never! There’s never an engagement with a client where it’s like, our website’s perfect. You probably don’t need to focus. They come to us because they know they need some help with our. So so that technical audit produce a list of like prioritize

Joe D: implementations to get after. And you

after we get through through those big deliverables, the tech audit and the keyword research. We usually

Joe D: put a bit of a break between the next strategic delivery to kind of tackle some of the issues that we found. So of. You know what we’ve scored. We say, all right. The things that are easy to do are going to have a big impact to performance. Let’s try to get those done before we start moving on to the next big growth idea. so we build a project plan. And this is like the kind of nuts and bolts of like working with us. But we do these.

Joe D: you know, regular status calls with their clients to say, Here, here’s everything that we found as opportunities. Here’s the

Joe D: kind of priority in which we think you should tap them. We, I mean, we do some of the implementation. Sometimes a designer needs to get involved or developer with development chops better than ours. we don’t do all the implementation, but we kind of

Joe D: we’re there for all of them some. Sometimes the the client has to like.

Joe D: understand our recommendation. And and

Joe D: you know.

Joe D: I guess you know, sell the idea internally to get resources to help. So the technical I usually produces months worth of work. We don’t only do that for the first few months, but usually the first

Joe D: a couple of months is like this, figuring out the technical stuff to build a foundation which we can grow, which we can grow from. So we get into like month . And we we start working on the next big strategic level. This one is usually a a competitive content audit. So this is specifically like

Joe D: some of those keywords that we identified as you need to focus on. you may not have the content available on your site to read for those keywords. So we come up with A, you know we do. It’s a competitive content. We use the same group of competitors to say, you know, Comp, your competitors are ranking for these keywords. And here’s why I’m using white patients they’re using.

Joe D: you know, transparent with their videos. They have.

Joe D: you know, a million, not a million. What are some of those million that this is great now? So one of the ways that people can optimize, or at least set up something for inbound marketing so that you have something gated so that you can capture content? Yes, yeah. The the kind of mostly words on the page if you don’t have the words on the right page.

Joe D: Yeah. So you like, like. Frequently I quit frequently asked questions, and great and most clients don’t have that yet. So you you can sometimes address keyword. You want to rank for just by asking the question that you think people are doesn’t need to be frequently asked, but it could be a good question that maybe you want supply and answer for

Joe D: I’m gonna decline a call. Excuse me.

Joe D: Other content. Ideas are like table of content. So your blog a blog strategy is usually part of this. This. competitive content on it says, like, here’s all all the content you need. Here’s some of the ideas that you can use to develop that content. So it’s like.

Joe D: sometimes it’s a more robust blog strategy. And it is you know, we say, like, here are the types of your target keywords that you can use your blog to try to rank for. So it’s helping clients put together a content strategy. We usually fall like the hug and spoke model where we say, like, here’s the big areas you should focus on. Here are the articles you could talk about

Joe D: published over the next year. Each of those articles may help rank for one or words, or support those words that are already raking another pace. The blog strategy is usually a big part of the content. the content audit, too.

Joe D: Those are the big ones that come to mind. They’re pretty typical, but optimizing the existing pages is always a big part of it, too.

Stacy Jones: And then, so you’ve figured out the keywords. You’re looking at the additional content that can be created, whether that’s blogs or white papers, or infographics, or whatever it might be.

Stacy Jones: And then what happens at that point?

Joe D: So the content audit every recommendation that went into that content. Audit. they’re also scored. We all, we say, like, here are the things we think you first or the easiest lift, or you know we have. We have the resources, do it for you with our state network, or

Joe D: you’ve identified. You have the resources to do that. So those recommendations get put on into the project plan, too. So the project plan, hopefully is shrunk a little bit from all the technical things we’ve already fixed. But then it grows again with the content recommendations that we want to start to implement. So again. If

Joe D: usually this, this can sometimes be overwhelming at this point. So it with, you know, if clients don’t have a a million resources and aren’t looking to move as fast as possible. We’ll spend some time implementing

Joe D: the highest priority content. optimization.

Joe D: maybe we spent a month or so trying to do that. So? And then after that, we, the next big strategic delivery, is a link audit and a and a recorded so link on it looks at both. your internal making how your pages are related to each other within your website. But it also is concerned with

Joe D: the domains linking to your website. It’s a huge factor in SEO, the number and quality of other websites. That point to your your website. So we do a link on it in our recommendation for for backlink growth backlinks, or the other people that link to you. this is another competitive audit. So it starts with

Joe D: what’s the it’s easier to describe the external linking part of this on it. But it’s what are the domains already linking to your website there?

Joe D: Which of them have the highest value. Is there anything more we can do with these people who already decided to link to you? Sometimes it’s reaching out to them. Say, Hey, you link to my brand name. But what I really need you. It’d be awesome if you could link

Joe D: to me using the words long sleep, shirt, or something that’s not your brand. because it gives you a little bit more equity for that. Maybe we’re unbranded word that you’re trying to write for But this audit

Joe D: and recommendation has the competitive component to. So we look at all the domains that are pointing to your competitors, and we kind of we. We put them all together, aggregate them, you know, de-duplicate them all, and then score them to say, Here are some opportunities that your people ran into your competitor. We try to go after them specifically, or something similar to them.

Joe D: so this big deliverable. So it’s the let. It’s usually the last of the big strategic levels. There’s lots of little ones in between, based by client, by client

Joe D: scenarios.

Joe D: But this is usually the last big one for the year, and the recommendations produce another set of tasks that get added to the project plan. So now we’ve got a lot so like we’re at this point almost halfway through the engagement. We’ve done a lot, but we’ve got a long list of things to do. So we spend, you know, the next or months just trying to get through as many

Joe D: you know implementations that we can a lot of it. Our team does, and some of it is just in consultation with the clients, developer or designer. We don’t do any that creative work. So that’s that’s something that

Joe D: I don’t know if it’s good or bad, but it’s the way that we have approached our agency. We only offer the services that we have experience with, and we feel like.

Joe D: you know

Joe D: we’re good at. So it’s we don’t do everything. People ask for help with creative stuff. And we’re we can make recommendations. We’ve got other agencies. We like to work with, but we don’t. We don’t do anything. I’m doing creative.

Joe D: Well, life has gotten a little easier as far as like writing when you’re having to get creative writing with Chat Gpt, now.

Stacy Jones: And I’m assuming that that is an area that is changing the landscape for SEO quite a bit and enabling things to be dialed in a very different, sometimes more easy, sometimes more complex way.

Joe D: Yeah, we We we published a blog about that a few weeks ago. We have a we call it the AI Symposium, but we have an internal meeting every weeks where everyone in that team has to bring one new idea of how to use AI to so a lot of

Joe D: we, we’re using AI in some of our processes already. So the first couple of meetings were just like, Hey, here’s how I’ve been using AI, you others on teams and try and use this, too. So kind of improving our processes with AI But it’s we’re getting to the point now where we’ve shared internally all the things that we’re using AI for. And now it’s like, well, I found this other application. We could try it. So

Joe D: like, you feel like, that’s what we’re that’s kind of what I’m focused on with the team like just using as many ideas out there and letting people play with the different tools that are out there. But Chat Gpt specifically, was the first. This was probably the first as far as generative. AI There’s a couple of ways. It really helped speed us up And on the so SEO side.

Joe D: I think I I guess I’ll speak to it.

Joe D: log strategy, right? So we we talked. The example I gave you was like, you know, we we put a hub and spoke approach together for a client. We say these are these are the things you can. You have authority, and you should speak to these topics in each of the this year. You want to try to post articles. It’s hard to come up, but just because you know the key word you’re trying to rank for, and maybe the the title of the article like somebody’s got a

Joe D: do a, you know, an outline and some research, and figure out how I got to put a thousand words. You I I I start with one. Yeah. So what you do is, you start with chat and you get your rough draft from Chat, Ppc, and it’s really help speed things a lot. you! It’s never even close to what you publish.

Joe D: but it helps get over that hum of Oh, where do I start?

Stacy Jones: And so with that. So can you ever have too much content.

Joe D: That’s a loaded question. I’m not sure exactly how to answer. I’ll say you’d never want duplicate content.

Joe D: So you never want content. That is too similar. and it’s sometimes you get to a point where you’re really like. I don’t know what the expression is grasping at straws or whatever to come up with content. If it’s too similar to something you’ve already done, there’s really no value

Joe D: from an SEO side. So in that to answer it. And that’s that small way. Yeah, sometimes you can’t have too much content. If it’s not new and useful, then you’re probably better off not producing it.

Stacy Jones: And then so beyond blog content, right? Because that’s that’s a go to. Is there a cadence with SEO that you need to look at as far as how much content you need to be putting out in that type of platform that’ll depend on on your target keyword list. So if you, if you need to produce or . If you need to publish or blogs

Joe D: every week to try to address your long list of target keywords. That’s how you build your kids. It’s like, what is it? What?

Joe D: What can I afford to hire writers to produce for me, or what does my team have bandwidth to right? But the constraints are really like, what can you invest in, and how much are you trying to accomplish this year? That answer the question. Sure. And then beyond, you know. So it’s blog. It’s website.

Stacy Jones: what else is SEO? Is it? Looking at backlinks? Is it looking at? Pr, that’s going to get your company mentioned, like, what else is out there that falls under this kind of nebulous SEO. And people here?

Joe D: I don’t need that. What else is included? It’s so funny. I it’s been such a big part of my life for the last years. When I meet people who don’t

Joe D: like even know what it is. I’m like what you mean. You don’t know what you don’t know what SEO stands for. It just happened to me yesterday at a graduation party.

Joe D: press releases was another great example of a recommendation that usually comes out of our content. Audit. So there is a there is a pretty. There is a pretty detailed

Joe D: like step plan to optimizing a press release. and if if you’re not doing it right that you you don’t get a lot of SEO value from the press release. So there’s like, it’s, it’s pretty. It’s actually really technical. Usually the Pr firm is great at writing the the actual press release and

Joe D: pushing it out to the world. But for a search engine to see it as relevant to your website. You’ve got to make some connections for the search engine spider that most people just don’t think about. So we we kind of we.

Joe D: We’ve with this document. It hasn’t changed much over the years. So we kind of share this stuff. Well, we we don’t get really involved in Pr other than to say, it looks like you’re doing it. So you should follow these steps with any press release going forward or looks like you’re not doing it. You should start to do it because it’s an easy. It’s in kind of a turn key way to get

Joe D: powerful links back to your website.

Joe D: And are there any ways you can mess this up along the way. Is there anything? Are there general mistakes that people make content in general? Or Pr.

Joe D: yeah, in general, any?

Joe D: I I I will say yes to both of those there are definitely ways you can. You can mess things up too much content. Is it too long form keeping it too short? It’s going to visual with images and not doing alt text and making sure that you can link in.

Joe D: Yeah, all all text is funny. It’s like for every you know I mentioned that like for a press release, there’s like this checklist of things you need to do for every blog post. We also have a checklist, for there’s like things every

Joe D: blog article needs to have, like the All. The all text on your images is one of the things that you have to do. There’s I, I would say you always, if you have the resources you always er on the side of more content, for SEO and longer form is almost always more beneficial than sure.

Joe D: If you only have bandwidth to write words with a you know.

Joe D: and

Joe D: some image from stock photo like it’s better than nothing. But you’re not gonna rise above the clutter for a competitive keyword with that little

Joe D: content. So usually it’s closer.

Joe D: So I don’t want to. I don’t want to give a piece of advice that’s not relevant to your entire audience. So I would, I would say, if you have a, you have a keyword or a target keyword you’re trying to rank for, and you’re gonna write a blog post around it to try and rank for for search, that you or see who’s there

Joe D: in the top results. And there’s a lot you can learn from that, such as when, where those articles published. If they were all within the last months. Then you know this is not something that you can do once and forget about for a year. that keyword needs to be

Joe D: the the content that is result that results. For that keyword needs to be really fresh. And Google’s. My, the other thing is, you can look at those top. results click through them and see how many words they’ve written. Usually it’s in the one to , range.

Stacy Jones: and I know that’s something that’s something that easy for all of our listeners to be able to do is to take a look at content that may have been performing really well for them. over the years, whether it’s website content or blog content. And just doing that refresh that you’re suggesting, because Google so does like it to be new and new information. And so and it’s nice. You already have a blog. That’s a thousand or , words not so hard to add another words and something that’s relevant

Stacy Jones: to today. Versus, you know, years ago, when you first wrote it.

Joe D: Yeah, they I it. It’s, you know, a lot of it comes down to like, what do you have resources to do if you have the resources to produce new content. So it’s a little easier for you to produce new content if you don’t, and you have some technical resource, then maybe the best use of your

Joe D: investment is refreshing those old blocks like. Figure out how to tweak them just a little bit. So they look newer to a search engine.

Stacy Jones: chat gpt again at home. If you are trying to figure this out, and not just putting it in and having it right for you, but at least lending you and giving you more information, or asking it to put into something that we’ve done, put in our blogs into chat with Gvt, asked it to create an outline from that. So you can make a table of contents. You could ask it to say, what is information that is missing

Stacy Jones: mit Ctl and and see areas. You can ask it to help you optimize for SEO and give it some actual words that you’re looking for, to make some suggestions. So .

Stacy Jones: You definitely need

Stacy Jones: help from Joe and people like him. But there are things that you can do if you’re not quite ready to get help from someone outside of your own internal organization.

Joe D: Yeah, it really gets you over the hump of getting started sometimes. The hardest part is I I know, I’ve got to write this , word article on something that I’m not like.

Joe D: I know it’s gonna require all this research. And I just don’t like you procrastinate because you’re not comfortable. So like you use checks you can do just to get your first ugly draft started and you work from there.

Stacy Jones: Yeah. And like my husband, too, it’s so funny. He’s a now, retired former English teacher, and then he was an administrator and a middle school, and a high school and principal, and he joined our agency about years ago, or years ago, as coming in for operations as we were growing, and so he has this whole, you know, writing and reading and background.

Stacy Jones: except that he doesn’t like writing, and

Stacy Jones: he’s not the world’s best reading, reader, because he has some some learning that’s actually, you know, dyslexia that actually slows it down for him. So what we found success for him is with verbally

Stacy Jones: writing a blog. So saying it, talking it out, recording it, transcribing it, and then editing it from there. And that’s very easy for people. If someone wants to just talk. If you’re not a writer, if you just want to talk something out sometimes that’s easier, even with someone else when you’re creating content. And if someone says, you know, here’s your

Stacy Jones: words that you’re trying to optimize for, and right around just having that conversation and flow, and then you could always pop it into Chat Gbt. And helping you clean it up a little bit will help you, remaster. That, too.

Joe D: I’m not a great writer, either. I’m and and I don’t know the I don’t know if this is common or not, but I I’m a little bit better at editing someone else’s writing, but I I don’t know if, like R. Are great

Joe D: editors, always. Great writers are great writers sometimes. Good editor. I don’t know how that mixes, but I think because of chat. Pt. Editors are gonna have more work than they’ve ever had in the past.

Stacy Jones: Oh, and yes, and again just throwing something in chat bt, not suggesting that you just go and rip it off and run with that. But it is such a good way to clean up your thoughts or help you get somewhere.

Joe D: Yeah.

Stacy Jones: how can people find you, Joe?

Joe D: Well, the website is moving traffic media.com, we we’re not a huge team. There’s only of us now. So if you email the info at moving traffic media on our contact page, we see it the same day you send it.

Joe D: But my name’s on there. My contacts on there. My Linkedin is on the website, too. If anyone wanted to speak to me specifically.

Stacy Jones: does Linkedin help you with SEO

Joe D: it is a powerful, it can kind of help you once it’s one of those powerful domains you want linking to your website. And if you if you post. Often you can use it for referral traffic.

Stacy Jones: and not in the sense that a search engine can help you right. You know, Linkedin is very kind of close. It uses its own platform and doesn’t really push its information out for Google to find. So the best way would be to include a link back to your website if you’re writing articles, although you don’t want to include too many links, because Linkedin doesn’t like having outside sources all the time, either.

Joe D: That’s right.

Joe D: Any other last words of advice to our listeners today I I have another session. We could do it. We could do it again. I would say, one of the big problems. I was trying to think of one big problem to come to the show and talk talk about with you, and that’s before you, before you

Joe D: release a redesign or a re platform of your website to consider SEO, and at least take stock of the vet. The SEO value of your website as it exists before you push out something brand new. Try to hold on to the value that you already have. Maybe you’re ranking for some important keywords. Maybe there is some pages that are seeing a lot of organic traffic. you there. There are ways in which you can identify the value of your website before you

Joe D: completely change it. So there’s a lot that can be involved. But at the most, the basic advice I would give you is like, take stock of what you have before you before you blow it up to try to improve it.

Stacy Jones: and my only add on, on! That would be, think about your naming of your company and your other platforms that you’re adding. So like, I made a mistake years ago where we’re Hollywood branded.com

Stacy Jones: great.

Stacy Jones: But then we created a block, and we created as a blog that Hollywood branded com. So it’s a sub domain which doesn’t actually give juice to Hollywood brandedcom. So it’s really, I have businesses. I’m running according to Google, basically online. That’s how they see it. So for my own mistakes, learn from it.

Stacy Jones: because there’s lots of things that you can actually do in unintentionally that you can’t fix like we have over , blogs out there. We’re not going to go back there and retitle and rename everything because we would lose all of our juice from SEO

Stacy Jones: from that. So there’s lots of things that can happen if you don’t have someone who is knowledgeable to help you guide. So reach out to Joe. I’m sure he and his partner can help.

Joe D: Thank you, Stacey, of course, and to all of our listeners thank you for tuning into another episode of marking.

Stacy Jones: I look forward to chatting with you this next week. I just got a whole dog to help bark me along the way. So thank you. And for once. It wasn’t my own dog. But goodbye, have a great one, and if you ever have need

Stacy Jones: finding ways that you can get your brand and other people’s content. So you’re not looking at your own solo journey here, and how you can conquer the world through a SEO, and you want to actually get your brand in television shows through product placement or feature films or music videos into a lyric or working with influencers or celebrities. That is our specialty, Hollywood brand it, reach out. My team would be happy to chat with you, and we will

Stacy Jones: look forward to learning more. Have a great one.