EP357: Harness The Power Of Performance Media Buying For Maximum ROI With Nathan Yueng | Find Your Audience

Stacy Jones: welcome to marketing mistakes and how to avoid them. I’m Stacey Jones, and I’m so happy to be here with you all today, and I want to give a very warm welcome to Nathan Yeoung. Nathan is the founder of Find your audience where he leads teams of marketing managers, graphic designers, media buyers, coordinators, and freelancers to develop and implement marketing strategies for organizations with over years of experience and marketing and a decade advising B to B businesses. Nathan has played a pivotal role in helping numerous companies build their marketing teams from scratch, transforming them into powerhouses in their respective industries. Nathan took his experience in finance management, consulting and marketing to design and build a marketing service that solves common marketing problems. Today. Nathan directly acts as a fractional cmo for medium sized businesses for finance and entertainment, health care, software and real estate, focused on positioning, pricing, advertising, media promotions and profit and loss. Management. Today, Nathan are going to be chatting about how to build a marking team. From scratch and understanding performance media buying and the level required to form it. Well. we’ll learn what works from Nathan’s perspective, what should be avoided, and how some businesses just miss the mark, Nathan, welcome! So happy to have you here today.Nathan Yeung: Thank you so much, Stacey.

Stacy Jones: What what I love to do is start off by you, sharing how, in your long and storage career, you have now founded a company that is solving a major issue that a lot of companies have, which is how to efficiently run their marketing without necessarily having an in house giant marketing team. Can you share how you got started and what led you to here today.

Nathan Yeung:
So I think it was really My time being a consultant for companies was really frustrating. I, I would spend countless hours analyzing identifying opportunities, identifying white spaces for companies to move into, some of which really, really, really lead on marketing requirements, like, especially on communication plans. and what I had got really just overly frustrated with was, I would build these, you know, amazing plans and and know they’re just not like Mckinsey things. They’re not just like million dollar fancy things. They’re really plans that I really wanted to see implemented that I generally believed in, and they would hand them off to people who, you know I’m not going to say we’re in cop with it, but certainly we’re not able to drive desired outcomes, and then that would reflect on my performance. So they go, Hindi, and you know, like we, we work with you for a year. You’ve done all this great work, but you know I didn’t really do well. I was like, well, had to do. Look at the work that of the people that you hired. And did you see the quality of what they accomplished? It wasn’t very good. so it’s not, it’s it’s it’s not it it it it was never getting done properly, and I didn’t feel good. And so I started just realizing there’s this natural gap with a lot of organizations, and a lot of that gap really comes from the fact that marketing art is being driven by people who have no marketing experience, of which actually, most of their experience comes from marketing speak meaning they’re actually being sold on the marketing space of which we are selling as great marketers, which is truthfully selling you quick fixes when they are, but not always. And and and I think that really misses the mark in how much experience is required for you to implement things properly. And so, therefore I just started seeing this big gap. Right? You have strategies and and you have advisory work. And then you have implementation. And you’re getting someone implementing. Sure like you, essentially consulting work with with no experience, and that just led to bad outcomes.

Stacy Jones: And that happens a lot. I think that in general you have, especially on those smaller companies that are launching, or that just don’t have a Cmo in place who don’t have a true marketing strategy. They think they know what they want. They think they know, you know. Oh, well, we should do traditional advertising. We should go in. And do you know Facebook ads without necessarily knowing that’s going to reach their core consumer or business target that they’re going after.

Nathan Yeung: Yeah, a absolutely right. And I and I always joke about it. There’s always going to be someone at the table that goes, hey? We should be doing tik tok, and then you go. Well, who? Who who exactly is doing the tik tok first of all right. And it’s just like it’s so easy to suggest these things. It’s so much harder to actually go through the exercise of like, what does that actually look like in our organization?

Stacy Jones: And what is it gonna cost us? That’s the big part that’s like the surprise. Always, it’s like that. You want all the bells and whistles for a marketing plan. And then you look at the actual, true human cost of putting those hours together. And it makes you want to switch things off sometimes.

Nathan Yeung:
Yeah, absolutely. And and and it’s so easy for us to just kind of really underestimate all the costs. Right? People are like, Oh, yeah, just use chat, Gpt, or use a new AI tool. And you go well, you you know that the AI tool produces good things, but you know it’s not the best right like it’s you still have to have manual work in order for that to be a usable product. And and I think you know even more because of the AI and the Admin. Recently, it’s become worse, like a lot of people. Just think it’s like, Oh, yeah, just just pay bucks a month. And look, we’ve got like a brand new person who can do motion design. I was like, no, you don’t. You have like something that looks like it’s done by a robot, but that’s what you have.

Stacy Jones: but it’s it helps you get there. I mean to to support AI. The tools are fantastic. If you actually know what you’re doing and what that outcome is supposed to be, we just ran something where we’re updating a lot of blog imagery. And so we put a contest out on one of the on our freelancer, a site freelancer.com. Actually. And I thought we were very specific. And what we were looking for, and then, seeing what we actually got back was like, Hmm, well, you you use the AI tools in the right way. But you needed to actually then blend it in with Photoshop, and you needed to actually take some talent of your graphic design, I, and make it a little bit better, so it can speed things up. But AI is certainly not the solution of doing it for you yet? Yup, exactly.

Stacy Jones: Yeah, it will be one day.

Nathan Yeung: Yeah, I would say, I’m gonna say, years. You’re gonna start seeing AI really hit the mark for certain industries. but you know, like I, I’ve had some clients recently do like, oh, we can do. We can do video with the I was like, you can do video. But it’s going to look like the video you get from, like the movies in the eighties where they try to interpret like AI, where it’s like, Hello, sir!

Stacy Jones:
So you’re not going to get that for a little while. Yeah. I started on Friday. Actually, I made my Friday night. My dive into the talking head videos with AI voice generation, we’re really far off from where that’s actually they’re they’re they’re staring into your soul like they. They don’t look friendly at all. Not at all. If you want to make it look like you, you’re going to have quite a long wait. Yeah. And to put in the perspective for any viewers, it’s like, it’s like, you know, like those the Stystopian movies where they’re going to jail. And then like it’s futuristic. And then they have someone talk to you like that’s that’s the feeling of talking heads right now. It’s like Dystopian jail. Welcome to the jail kind of feel. and then you’re staring at the mouth so much trying to see if it actually looks like it. It’s just a little off. it is close, that’s all off. So it’s like a foreign film that’s been translated. That’s a little off. Yeah. So it’s it’s a so AI is is great. But you know, like again, we all these people that are non marketers are just like all these. These things solve our solve all of our pain points, which is the bane of our existence is marketers. We do have such a great job saying that we could solve things that that unfortunately, that actually translate back to our job. and really where, you know, and I don’t want to get too far down the AI with although we could. What I love about AI like we’re using a lot for content creation textually like whether it’s a blog, you know, outline that’s getting you started or helping you build examples out for case studies, or taking what you’ve already written, and writing an intro to it, or a summary of it, or creating a meta description. which is really great for or condensing it for social media posts. and as long as you actually have the intellect and insights and knowledge to be able to look at it and decide if it’s total Bs, or if it’s close enough that you could just tweak it here and there to make it yours, then it’s really valuable.

Nathan Yeung: Yeah, no, a it absolutely. And I. And I say this to people all time. A AI is going to read million times faster than you can probably and and and and and consume information million times faster than you. So summaries, or anything where where you’re looking for salient points from a body of text. It’s going to do faster than you, by by by, by, you know by magnitude. And and I certainly think that’s a very good use case for it today. Okay, so you join as a Cmo fractional Samo for these companies.

Stacy Jones: What does that mean?

Nathan Yeung:
What it means? A lot of the times is setting a baseline So actually, no, let me take that back. It’s baselines, one baseline is, what is this industry? What are we doing? What are we selling? What is the sales cycle look like? Who’s our Tam? Who’s our Icp? And for those are listening? What they’re going to be like, well, that’s like Cr, or like sales work. Well, well, it’s very much also my work, right? Because my goal is to to amplify sales, amplify revenue? and then the the other part is just setting a baseline of like, what is the baseline? What are we doing today? so I think the way I like to go about it is in the sense of questions. It’s like, Where are we today? Where are we going? How are we going to get there? And how much is it going to cost? And those are generally the questions that I want to answer when I go into an organization. And that means that I’m doing a ton of auditing work. which means I’m going through historical. So I’m going through the website. I’m going through any data that they hopefully have been connecting to collecting. But you know, realistically, again, it’s it’s just getting

Stacy Jones:
that baseline. So I have a sense of what’s going to be their priority. The biggest difference between me and I feel like most marketers is, I don’t come in prescribing ideas. I

Nathan Yeung:
Think that’s the one thing that I feel that a mark a lot of marketers do, because they feel very passionate about what they specialized in, so whether they have been very successful in email, whether they have been very successful in demand generation, whether they have been very successful on paper click ads. They always seem to come in with this prescription. It’s like this is what we need to do. I’m very much against that. I go in with this idea of. Here are the constraints both on a capital and on a, on a so on financial capital and a human resource, capital perspective. Here are the constraints of the category. Here are the constraints in the sales process. When we look at all these constraints, what is the biggest priority that on a marketing perspective that I can drive. That’s gonna drive a material impact in that organization. And that might be email that might be SEO, that might be a new website. But it’s really whatever is going to be the biggest, most material change today versus coming in with this idea where it’s like, okay, this is what I do. Well, this is what we have to do. And I and I really don’t believe that that works for every organization.

Stacy Jones:
Where do you find the conflicts are with stakeholders and companies. When you’re joining as a fractional Cmo

Nathan Yeung:
they will basically the exact problem that I talked about before. You have a whole bunch of people who are not marketers trying to be marketers. And so, generally speaking, you have a lot of chefs in the kitchen. so so where do I see along the pushback a lot of times. I see. I see the push back is really just. You have a whole bunch of people who want to be involved in the process, who who should not be involved in the process. In fact, they actually need to remember that they are so involved in that process that they are probably the worst person to be asking advice from And you’ll see this time and time again with a lot of technical founders where like this is what the copy needs to be. And it’s like, no, that copy makes sense to you. and maybe your peers. But it it really doesn’t make sense to anyone else in your Icp, so that’s really not the direction. And they will push back, and they will say, Well, no, no, no, that this is what we’re doing. It’s like, I know, that’s what you’re doing. And I know on a technical standpoint, that’s what you’re doing. But unless you want to educate customers on what? Yeah? And spend a whole bunch of time and money on video assets just to educate, or you can just rephrase it right? And and so so I think that’s like the biggest push back we tend to get. It’s always based on the communications, because everyone thinks that they know exactly, and I always go back. The the best place for you to find your language The language that’s going to push the product is through a product marketing and sales feedback loop right constantly. Talk to your sales team constantly. Iterate the language that’s being used in those conversations that’s going to be far better than just, you know, kind of saying what this is, what I think works and I think that’s something that any organization can really do, and I feel like a lot of organizations really miss the mark in in getting that feedback loop from sales conversations into marketing.

Stacy Jones:
Well, you also know how Chat gpt where you can feed it in and say dumb it down and find out if you get back something that is totally different, and you can say, Look, even an AI robot thinks this.

Nathan Yeung:
The the principal was very set on the perspective, that it was very representative of their market, and it was very not. And and then, you know, it took the fact that we have to do a survey to prove that and and that’s the unfortunate part. But you know that that kind of just goes back to this point. You have a lot of people who think they’re marketers, and they and they just really aren’t.

Stacy Jones: And so when you’re working with these marketers who are not marketers, how do you get them to feel supported and heard and understood enough to hand off their baby to you to run with.

Nathan Yeung:
So that’s a good question. that’s a really good question. Thank you. And I think the biggest challenge you’re going to get is then being heard. It’s it’s almost. It’s my phone making this noise.

Stacy Jones: I really don’t know what it is. I’ve never heard it before.

Nathan Yeung:
But seemingly, isn’t that lovely? Yes, being being being heard and and having them feel her is difficult, because if you’re hearing them, they have the expectation that you’re going to drive what you have heard. and there’s really no way around that, because some of this is like literally verbatim, one to one coffee right? Sometimes. They’re literally like you need to use this word. And in situations like that, what I would really recommend is kind of just an old age kind of perspective on management. You can’t have someone succeed unless you give them an environment to succeed in. If you are prescribing constraints in someone that you have hired. Then you have to also know that you are controlling their outcome. You’re you’re not giving them the freedom to succeed. And so a lot of the times. To be honest rather than me, acting like I have heard them, which is the truth, because I will, I will object. I will sometimes usually more use the line of look you, you have entered into a relationship with me. You have clearly believed in my skill sets and my experiences, and also my ability to achieve your desired outcome. You are prescribing your perspectives onto our work. So I have to ask you a question. Did you hire me to simply translate your thoughts, or did you hire me to guide the marketing vision? And that generally is where the conversation stops because most founders, or most owners or decision makers, know that they have hired whoever to get them to do what they do well. and you really have to go. Well, if you’re just going to put a box around me, then you have to understand. The only thing you’re going to get is your box. You’re not going to get my version of the box. You’re just going to get your box, and and that seems like a waste of money. and and that’s typically how I have to approach those conversations because it will get to the point where it’s just like, Hey, like, Thank you for the gutter guards, but I gotta hit a strength right, and if you want to put a underground right in front of me, then I’m not hitting a strength you’ve given me the but you have not given me the environment to succeed.

Stacy Jones:
I think that happens with smaller companies a lot more where they may have hired different people through the years, or had different experiences where they were not necessarily charmed with their results. And so there ends up being with a lot of founders and entrepreneurs who aren’t always very good at vocalizing their true vision overall. And that might be very good at what they’re doing, but not necessarily managing other people’s or managing something from Xyz, which is the whole reason they’re bringing us free someone in to help as a fractional Cmo, where that comes up a lot where they’ve gotten bitten and their trust is low.

Nathan Yeung:
Yeah. Yeah. And and it comes back to this whole thing. where again I I go back to the same point. You have people who are acting like their marketers also now hiring marketers. So the question is as well, if you’re not a marketer, you think you’re marketing. So you interview people as if you are a marketer. But you have no idea what you’re looking at. Then you’re probably potentially hiring competent people. because you don’t know pointed questions. And it’s no different. It’s like, it’s like, Imagine going to a doctor who was never a doctor. they’re gonna ask you questions. They might figure out some symptoms, but they’re not really going to find out any root causes. Why? Because they’re not doctor So if you’re a marketing person, and you think you’re a marketing person and you’re in the owner of a business, and you’re hiring a marketer. Well, you’re gonna miss out on some core issues. And you’re gonna get some bad outcomes. And so I always lean on this. Leave the ego at the door higher. someone for dollars sit on that call. If you’re really dead set on hiring someone and just have that person ask questions and literally just say, Hey, all I need you to do is, tell me, do you really think this person’s confident there’s going to be some self interest involved. Don’t get that. Don’t get me wrong. That person is probably gonna want more of a contract from you. But at the end of the day. At least you have a second opinion, or if you have a friend, lean on the frame right? If you don’t know marketing stuff acting like you do, because you will get burned, because it’s very easy to lie about marketing.

Stacy Jones:
It’s very easy to just spin on ideas without actually implementing things, too. I mean, that’s that’s something that can come up because ideas are ideas until the same thing that you were saying earlier. If you don’t have the right people in place. If you have given them this phenomenal framework to work within, unless you’re actually executing it on your side. It’s really hard to see, you know that baby? You’ve sculpted literally being thrown out with the Bath water?

Nathan Yeung:
Yeah. And and I nicknamed those people solutions suggestors. They’re professional solution suggestors, right? It’s it’s that one friend that goes. Oh, yeah, that’s that’s easy. Just do this. And it’s like, like.

Stacy Jones:
Yeah, you know, it’s like your friend who’s like the, you know, like a mechanic. It’s like, Oh, yeah, just change the gas pump.

Nathan Yeung:
That’s just, you know. Just change it. It’s like, but you know how to do that. I don’t think right. It’s  h of Youtube tutorial videos. And I’m still going to get it wrong. Yeah. And and so in marketing, there are so many people who solution suggests, right? Oh, yeah. Crm is good. Oh, yeah. Tik, tok, good. Oh, yeah. Influencer marketing is good. Oh, yeah. Community product like growth. All these fancy terms, right? Always have these people. And the fact is for everyone that’s listening. It takes one or years for you to be good at any one of those skill sets. So the fact that you have some person who’s like, Oh, yeah, I do everything, and I can do you? I can input all these things, and I know how to do in and out. The likelihood is they’ve maybe successfully implemented one of those tactics in their entire lifetime. unless they’re running an agency. So there you go on the Freelance world. I’m sorry. So when you are working to build the team that you now are managing, since you’re not throwing out everything. Here’s your tactical plan. Go do it.

Stacy Jones: What type of people are you looking for?

Nathan Yeung:
I so when I’m building a team. it really depends on the category. Meaning, do I think this is a really complex sale? If it’s a really really simple sale. Then you’re looking at someone different? so that’s the first thing is, is really just being honest with yourself. Is this a simple solution? Or is this something where it is complex. And you may need to have, like a technical sales member or actually come in these calls. If you need a technical sales member to come into calls. Then you probably already know you’re in a technical industry. And therefore you’re you’re you’re probably gonna need a product market or come in to help really build out your product, mobile marketing roadmap, which includes all of your sales enablement tools. If you’re doing something really simple. you could probably hire someone that bridges kind of product, marketing and customer success in the sense that this person can be very product led oriented in the sense of building out kind of onboarding materials, videos, walkthroughs, those things are going to be really important. So this is again, why, I say, you know, you can’t prescribe a certain person for all these companies, because it’s all very different in sense of priorities. But the number one thing is, if you don’t have materials that speak about your benefits very clearly and prove your benefits out. That’s where you need to start. Like, I was literally just on a website where someone is hypothetically competitor of mine, which is fine. Let’s go ahead. But no case studies nothing. So they’re like, Oh, yeah, just hire a team. By the way, on my Linkedin, I have employees. So you go. Well, how how do you do with the team when you have employees on Linkedin to none of these people that are on the website of which you have of them. For some reason, have you on Linkedin? And you go? I don’t know how that works. And so the thing is is that you really want to make sure. And this is something that I talk about. About category benefits is you gotta make sure that you can prove your benefits because it’s less about what you’re selling, and it’s more about. Can you prove the confidence you can achieve a desired outcome. If you can’t prove that you can’t do that. Well, you’re probably not going to get the sale right. So so I I think that’s really where I focus on a lot of product stuff.

Stacy Jones:
What are other mistakes that fractional Cmos make that you see?

Nathan Yeung:
Oh, I think one of the things is actually just push back. I think it or not pushing back. and I think Cmos in general, you have bullied. and I think what ends up happening often is they are pushed into tactics again that are prescribed and not necessarily a focus. And it’s really important, I think, for the sanity and also the sake of the someone’s own reputation and performance, to really push back when it’s required. They they’re often pushed to do far too many channels. Far too many tactics create far too many different assets, and they really do that sometimes when there’s a lipstick on the pig meaning there is no good product marketing. There are no good case studies. There are no good testimonials, there’ no core things that are needed in order for marketing to do well. And so sometimes these people are just performing poorly because they’re just getting pushed around by a whole bunch of different stakeholders. And that happens a lot

Stacy Jones:
and a lot of organizations. And then the stakeholders end up getting frustrated because they have put this person to a task of doing. But they haven’t realized that they have spent this person’s time of doing and overseeing and managing, having them instead run circles.

Nathan Yeung:
Yeah. And and I think this again goes back to the fact that marketers are the bane of our own existence in the sense that marketers make it harder to become a marketer. We make things so easy. You go to anyone else in the organization and you show them the actual responsibility chart of what marketing needs to care. The various tools that we’re required to be, quote unquote champions or specialists in it is far more than any other part of the organization we have to deal with. Gdpr, we have to deal with the mar stack. We have to deal with retargeting. We have to deal with the website. We have to design with potentially different different languages. Every time we translate assets. Sales. W. What do you? You go through your Crm. You make calls. You follow up with people. It’s the same people, the same process, the same systems. You change your proposal software, you change. Yeah, right? And then for us, it’s like every months we’re forced with a new tool that we got to use. Why? Because some other marketer has sold it to your stakeholder group, and that’s stakeholder pushes. Now, pushing it down your throat like AI, right, you know, like you like, how fast was it it when you know everyone was like, if you’re not doing a you’re fired. So so now now we have to be prompt specialists. We, we, as marketers, have to learn how to do prompts. No one else in the organization has to do prompts, but we have to do the prompts. And so this is what I mean. Like, there is a there is generally a gross underestimation of the amount of work that is required for Cmo. To actually know to do their job well. And and I don’t think other departments or other functions really appreciate that because, you know, it’s nice to be a Cfo. You kind of deal with the same things all day long. and that tells you the story a lot more than what marketing does. Yeah, absolutely. you know, I would almost a minute to the level of compliance if you’re like a chief compliance officer for anything that’s sensitive like that. That’s probably the level of complexity that marketing has to deal with, especially on an international level. That’s like how many things are moving. And I really don’t think people see it like that.

Stacy Jones: Okay. so if you could explain to future entrepreneurs and founders of companies who might consider hiring whether it’s a fractional first time. Cmo. What advice would you give them?

Nathan Yeung:
I think you don’t need to have a fractional C all any time soon. If you’re just starting your business. What I would really really recommend is book a time. and I guess this is self promotion. You could put a time with me. You could book a time with anyone fiver just for the love of God, please review their resume, so don’t take bad advice from someone who’s never had experience but book book, the Time book, the  h call. Go through your business, walk through your category, explain what you’re doing, and get the advice from someone who’s probably done it, either in your industry or it’s scaled something. from there, that’s going to set your priorities, and then, for your priorities you can figure out really what you need. I always talk about like marketing is more of a priority game than it is anything else? It’s more just like, what can we do? And what can we do? Well, and so my recommendation is is, don’t, don’t just this. Don’t read. every blog is going to be self serving. Every video about something is going to be self serving. Just know this one fact, every channel, every tactic and marketing works. The question is is, whether or not you have the ability to execute on that task, or asset or strategy, or whatever to the nth amount. And you’re actually going to get that outcome right? So rather than trying to figure that out yourself, go talk to an expert. They’ll give you the priority. And then you can decide which one of those, maybe priorities you can actually execute well, and then execute on dive. Don’t jump into Tik, Tok, Instagram, Facebook. And all these other things don’t start building reels for the sake of building reels. Don’t start building community for the sake of building a community. Figure out if that’s what you need today. Because again, you have limited time, you’ve limited capital, and you have limited human capital as well. So those are the things that you have in mindful of

Stacy Jones:
Nathan. How can our listeners find you? If they do want to reach out and have that call? Sure? absolutely you. You can find me on Instagram at Fya marketing bytes with a Why, that’s where we’re hosting. So our videos or you can find me on Linkedin at my name, Nathan young spell y E. U. N. G. As my last name, and or you can just go to our [email protected] your audience dot online. I know it’s really long. But you’re probably not going to forget. And it’ll also be in the show notes for this podcast so if you’re walking your dog or driving your car, you’ll be able to find it at it won’t be an issue. And so with all of that. And and knowing that there’s a lot of mistakes that people can make on both sides right? So whether you are positioning yourself as a fractional Cmo. Or someone who can help, and maybe you. You are not quite ready to do that, or whether you are a founder entrepreneur, and you are ready to have some help. What would be the biggest piece of advice you would give more so for the founder entrepreneur.

Nathan Yeung:
the founder entrepreneur The biggest advice is actually what we use. during our discovery. And and it’s like the core part of our framework. And it’s really to think about things sustainability and practicality. Sustainability is, can you do whatever you’re doing for all consistent period of time? And this is very much everything in life. If you can’t practice the guitar every single day. You’re never going to get good at it if you can’t. If you can’t practice whatever marketing tactic you’re planning to do. You’re probably not going to be good at it. And the second thing is, is it practical? is is something that you can effectively do Another example is, if you think that conferences are the best thing. But you’re scared of flying planes or being in planes. You’re probably not going to a lot of conferences. so really, just dumbing it down to think about all the assets and and tactics that you can do that are sustainable and practical and prioritize, based on that. Because if you really don’t have anything that’s the best thing you can do, and whether that’s emailing, cold calling, going to conferences, making making sales calls you know, doing more campaigns, doing whatever just you have to be able to consistently it and do it well. And if you really can’t do both like you’re going to be struggling. So just go back to the basics and don’t. Don’t flat fall the shiny objects, the the shining objects work sometimes, if you’re lucky, but they’re they’re often not the best place to start.

Stacy Jones:
Yeah. And I think the other thing I would add to. That is a sense of realism, the fact that things don’t happen just overnight. It takes time. You decide that you want to create a newsletter and a blog. You’re gonna have to build your audience. You’re gonna have to get content out there. You’re gonna have to have Google actually in gesture content so that it knows where to serve you. You’re gonna have to figure out ways to get it out there. And I’m just using this as an example in general, because it can apply to anything that you have to get that rinse and repeat. You have to keep going on it. You have to keep fine tuning it, and it might not be perfect. And you’re also gonna have to realize that that you’re you’re aiming for success and perfection. But you’re going to be learning a lot along the way. It’s also teaching you how to get to that success.

Nathan Yeung:
Yeah. And you know, the one thing is that is very humbling is when I started. Fya don’t market invites on Instagram. I had no followers, and that is incredibly discouraging like for any of you. That plan to do that and plan to create. Content yourself. Remember, including Stacey. At point she probably had one listener, and that is the she had people following her blog. For the first, probably year Stacy wrote a blog every single solitary week. So, and then all of a sudden, it was over , people. And then it was like ,

Stacy Jones: People. And it it took a long time. We started writing blogs in ,. I started this podcast over , years ago, like it takes a lot of rinse and repeat and rinse and repeat. And you are in a siloed world thinking that no one is listening until they are

Nathan Yeung: yeah. And and that goes back. Can you sustain it? And can you do it well? And and and if you can’t. Then then, really, really, you have to take a closer look at whether or not you should continue that tactic.

Stacy Jones: Well, Nathan, thank you so much for joining us today. I think that you think people hear the word fractional. Cmo, and they’re like, what the hell is that? So thank you for clearing up a bit of that, and also for sharing. You know where things can go wrong and how entrepreneurs founders. Ceos can maybe take a moment and give a little bit of freedom to those that they hire after doing due diligence, that they’re good to hire.

Nathan Yeung: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for having me on your show today, Stacy.

Stacy Jones:
Well, to all of our listeners, thank you for tuning in to another episode of marketing mistakes and how to avoid them. I look forward to chatting with you this next week, and until then, if you have any interest in getting your brand embedded into the hottest content in Hollywood movies and TV shows, music videos reach out to me or reach out to our team and we will connect and chat about how you can use third parties to leverage your content and get you in front of millions of eyes. Have a great one.