EP367: Proven Strategies for Building Connection Through Podcasting With Simon Chou | BC Jobs

Stacy Jones: welcome to marketing mistakes and how to avoid them. I’m Stacey Jones, and I’m so happy to be here with you all today, and I want to give a very warm welcome to Simon Chow. Simon is the chief marketing officer of Vc. Jobs, a leading job board connecting employers with top talent in various industries, with over adecade of experience in global marketing, Simon has built a successful career in guiding several V B organizations with a special focus on leveraging the power of podcasts and linkedin to establish himself and others as thought leaders in their respective industries.Stacy Jones: Simon is also the podcast host of both marketing on Mars and innovators, podcast which have collectively garnered over , lessons, leveraging his digital networking skills. Simon additionally organizes in person and online happy hours unite over a thousand Cxos founders, tech professionals and Linkedin creators.

Today, Simon, I are going to be chatting about how to build your personal brand through social media and podcasting and the power of community building.

Stacy Jones: We’ll learn what works from Simon’s perspective, what should be avoided and how some businesses and individuals just miss the mark.

Stacy Jones: Simon, welcome, so happy to have you here

Stacy Jones: of course. So what I love to do is always start off talking about. How’d you get here today? Right? So you and I started this conversation about your mad skills at podcasting and all the community development. But what got you to realize this was the area you wanted to really grow and thrive in.

Simon: Yeah, so we’re talking about podcasting, community building and personal branding everything. I know exactly the day this all started. It was.

Simon: it was like.

Simon: Thank you. Back to Covid that first, that first week of Covid, when everyone was figuring out, what do they do next? At the time I was a Cmo of PC jobs and BC. Jobs did a lot of in-person events, and we had to very quickly. In a few weeks we had to transition into virtual.

Simon: And so one of the things we decided to do was start a podcast

Simon: and before this I had never started a podcast. I had never run in a single event. In fact, I was so introverted I would never go to any networking events. Networking was like this nasty word for me, and I also never had a personal brand. I was always building the brand from behind the scenes for for Cxos and for for companies. I never did anything, and but because of Covid

Simon: I knew that the company had to transition, and there was a and at the time there was no one that I felt that could take that on.

Simon: So I decided, rather than hiring someone, I would just jump into that seat. It was my first time ever being the face of anything.

Simon: and that was literally, I think, Covid started March , and I started. My first podcast

Simon: May, May or June of ,.

Simon: So it was. It’s been years a little over years now it’s been a crazy journey from, I’ve recorded in total total maybe different podcast episodes i’m on my second. Podcast now of marketing on Mars

Simon: And because of all that, I started writing on Linkedin and sharing my journey. So now I’ve been super active on Linkedin for the last months.

Simon: and then from that I mentioned over into pod into events and community building. So all of that I think all started from that very first podcast episode that I recorded in my room in a one bedroom condo. And I I I bought this yeti Mike from Amazon. It was, it was so bare bones. I didn’t even have any equipment and just started speaking. And that’s how it all started.

Stacy Jones: And how does that change things for you.

Simon: It has changed everything. It has changed. Who I am as person I used to be. I would say I was probably % introverted super shy, Guy, when I go to events.

Simon: And now I’m leaning more towards like I think I can turn off. I have the switch that I can now turn off to be more extroverted because I have to be

Simon: I think it’s changed me as a person. It’s changed my outlook.

Simon: It’s changed. How I how I show up in public before I used to be.

Simon: If you looked at my Linkedin before it was Simon. No post

Simon: just very focused on, you know, writing all the different line items on my on my Linkedin. But I never talk. I never spoke in public.

Simon: And now, right now, I do. And now I’m on podcast I’m getting, I’m on different podcasts. It’s, it’s been a crazy years. I think.

Simon: so I and I wouldn’t. it was very challenging in the beginning. But I wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s been, it’s been amazing. Yeah. So you are a slight advocate for podcasting community building, social media and putting the power of you into your brand

Simon: slightly, slightly, yeah, I mean, we can, we can dive into it. We can dive into it. But I think everybody everybody in marketing should have a personal brand, because if you don’t know how to build your own personal brand. How are you building someone else, some other company’s friend

Simon: spending millions and tens of millions of dollars on marketing? You can’t build your own brand. Why are you managing someone else’s brand? It’s it. I used to think it was so cringy to have a personal brand. I still think it is, if you’re selling, I, personally don’t sell anything.

Simon: I believe it. Community should be about the people. It should not be about you.

Simon: And so like, for my events. When I run events, I never sell anything with my, podcast I never sell anything. I’ve never sold a single thing once. It’s just giving people, the voice.

Simon: And I think that a as a community building and as a as a podcast or your number one goal is to give the voice to the people to give the voice to the people that are watching your stuff, not to the sponsors, not to yourself.

Simon: because if you do it for yourself, you’re not doing for other others that people can recognize that. And so yeah, I like, I, I I just is all about community for me whether that’s due podcast, events, personal brand, Linkedin post, or whatever. And now I’m on threads. So no matter, no matter what it is, it’s all about community.

Stacy Jones: And so how do you bring this into your day to day? Now, how are you helping others within this space?

Simon: it depends. It depends who we’re talking about who are you interested about like, are you interested in the for the founders or

Stacy Jones: the for the? Podcast? What do you want me to talk about. You have so many things that you can talk about. But with podcasting specifically. So how are you? You know, is it more so that you are using your shows in order to highlight other people? Are you giving others insights on how to be thought leaders themselves? What are you doing

Simon: so on my, podcast I highlight C-suite and founders, the marketing leaders of the companies. And I want to highlight what they’re doing to grow their company. the show is called marketing on Mars. recently, I just had a

Simon: actually, I can say it because this this episode is going to Aaron.

Simon: Okay? So I think I can say it. So I just had the Cmo. Of Jenny Craig on the show. Jenny Craig. You probably have heard of it. It’s a household brand. They’ve been around for years.

Simon: It recently went through bankruptcy.

Simon: and so we had the Cmo. Come on for the very first time since the bankruptcy. Talk about Jenny Craig, and how the whole thing unfolded. My whole thing is just giving the voice to the C-suite and and the founders. in a way that is fun

Simon: but also very educational. So on my show, I asked them really tough questions. And as a as a podcast progresses. I asked tougher and tougher questions.

Simon: and every single time they cannot answer a question because it’s proprietary or it’s private information. We both take a shot of hot sauce. So actually have a

Simon: of a bottle hot sauce on my show. That’s why it’s called marketing on Mars. On my linkedin. There’s a chili to a red pepper.

Simon: I believe in education.

Simon: but I don’t believe in formality. I think you should bring yourself to work. Forget about all the seriousness and all the formal stuff, and being so strict. We all want to have fun in life. And we all were put in this world as kids, people that were curious and just laughing and joking around. And I think, Portal what I in the last

Simon: X number of years, and I I don’t know when it started, but business became so serious and so formal, and I want to take that. I want to strip that out. And so my show on my show. I do hot sauce shots

Simon: on my in my events. There are no speakers. Everyone’s just drinking and having fun. I I bring hot sauce shots hot sauce wherever I go. So if a sponsor wants to speak on stage, they have to take a shot of hot sauce before they speak.

Simon: everything is just about finding it, just bringing yourself to events. So

Simon: that’s my favorite brand. But I I really like this is what my ass a few times. this is the Carolina Carolina reaper hot sauce they actually want. They want the , cross hybrid hot sauce it.

Simon: Award

Simon: from Seattle, Seattle, Washington. I really like it.

Stacy Jones: That’s awesome. Okay. Now we know what hot sauce I bet you have had quite a few

Simon: bottles here and there of bottles. Bottles. Yeah. Bottles for sure.

Simon: I I need to go to regular doctor check ups nowadays. It’s

Stacy Jones: so for someone who is trying to figure out how to start building their own personal brand. What is it you suggest? The steps are that they take just to get out there.

Simon: Biggest thing is to start.

Simon: if you look at who I am now versus.

Simon: and how I speak. And my podcast demeanor and everything.

Simon: It’s very different

Simon: right now. years in versus Simon on day, one

Simon: on day one man. I had no idea what I was doing, but I just did it. And I kept doing it. And oh, and after , you just just promise me, if, like whoever’s listening, if you want to start a podcast just do episodes.

Simon: And then message me afterwards, after episodes, you will be a completely different person, and then, after another, another, every single episodes you do, you will keep upgrading. I’ve done episodes, which is why I can now speak without any cue cards and without any scripts under on day. One of my podcast everything I said was written out. I wrote every single line, Hi, my name is Simon, welcome to innovators. Podcast

Simon: this show is above, like every single line, was written out word for word. And if I skip that line, I would be all flustered.

Stacy Jones: Yeah, I was something very similar. Actually, when I started this, we’re over plus the episode in this this, I’m a pro. Yeah. I’ve been doing this for over years. but much like you, you know, I started the podcast my first episodes were with me alone. I did not have guests either. And so I started off by, okay, I’ve written all this great content. How do I

Stacy Jones: talk about this great content? And they’re very beginning part there might have been some blogs that were a little bit red, and sounded very much so, and then I magically got better at reading, and not sounding like I was actually reading. So that was a talent that I was able to take on. And eventually I got comfortable enough to be able to just talk, and that’s the key, and it is. It’s just practice. And I guess if you and I both follow Malcolm Gladwell by , of these things, we will be absolute pros and experts.

Simon: Yeah. So I got, I got about left to go. I think you got you got a few more. So like that’s the thing that even with even with episodes or episodes under your belt, you’re still learning. And so I think that’s like, you know, if you’re trying to build your personal brand, just know you never got it. You never have figured it out

Simon: to today. Linkedin is popular. tomorrow threads will be popular.

Simon: and a year from now it’ll be another platform you constantly have to learn, and if you’re stuck with one platform like, if you’re still on. If you’re still on Facebook posting, you’re probably not doing everything that you can, because there’s so many other platforms for business podcasts, that where you can hit a certain target audience, right? So you’re constantly learning constantly reiterating

Simon: threads. A week and a half ago was crazy. I don’t know if you go on a threat, but it was insane. It was just a it like everybody was on there. Everybody would response to your comments. But now you got to put a little bit more effort. Now it’s like one in comments that you give. Would. They will give you comments back. So I actually recently wrote a post about it and and and like things change all the time. And you just constantly have to learn.

Stacy Jones: Yeah, and threads is interesting because it’s so tied to Instagram. And if you don’t have your Instagram set up, you’re not going to be able to cross over to threads. So it is such a different world than just a startup of a new platform. But like on Linkedin, I’m Stacey Jones, and the reason why I’m Stacey Jones, which is a really common name that you guys can’t figure that out. I got into Linkedin so early, and that was the only reason why, right? And

Stacy Jones: it’s it’s something that if you are going to be an early adapter on social and different platforms, you have to jump in and you have to start, and just putting in more content and trying it out and seeing what that platform is going to do for you.

Simon: Yeah, I don’t know what what your experience with threads and Linkedin has been. But I I I’ve been pretty active. I would love to hear your opinion, because you’ve been on it for a long time. I found Linkedin to be

Simon: kind of like your your resume.

Simon: so people going on your Linkedin can see who you are what you’re interested in from a business endpoint, but it’s still very business centric, and it’s still a little bit more edited because your bosses on there. Your clients are on there. Your’re you’re you’re maybe your employees are on there. Your contract is on there. So you’re kind of still, you putting up kind of a professional face. Still, you. Everything is a little bit filtered, kind of like the Instagram. Everything is all filtered.

Simon: but threads is like kind of twitter where you are. Just Stacy, like everything you want to talk about, it’s unfiltered. Your comments, usually it’s almost like a text you’re typing in s. I love the combination and the balance of threads at Linkedin, because Linkedin is like you share your business stuff in a filtered way, and then threads it like

Simon: everything. Everything goes right. And it’s like I love that

Stacy Jones: and I have been doing social media on Linkedin for a very long time. But I own an advertising agency, right? And I own a large advertising agency in Los Angeles. And

Stacy Jones: I’m not going to be different on my Facebook side of it versus my Linkedin side, because I am just who I am, but I’m also always going to be professional and polished. There is no more Stacey Jones, you know. There’s no, you know, partly because of my age, right? I’m not someone who’s in my twenties who’s single and who’s roaming around and having

Stacy Jones: things that might not be as professional. So for me, everything is professional. And so it’s all the same.

Simon: Okay, so I’ll take that back. It’s not that. It’s not professional. Is that you? I can. I can talk about. I can.

Simon: I don’t have to double check my Linkedin posts.

Stacy Jones: I can’t give you like. You can be more casual about it versus make sure everything is exactly listed professionally.

Simon: maybe using hashtags and all that threads. No hashtags.

Simon: everyone is just a you you’re you’re you’re not going to double. Check your writing. You’re just speaking as you know how you and I are talking right now. There is nothing prepared, that is, threads, whereas Linkedin is like we’re talking.

Simon: and then we’re going to do some editing and post-production. There is no post production. It doesn’t mean that we’re not professional. It doesn’t mean that we’re being the little girls. It just means that it’s more like at the moment conversations. And there, there’s something to be said about having conversations that feel more raw, like, yeah, yeah, it doesn’t mean that. Yeah. For me. I know my voice is more casual.

Simon: It is professional. I don’t know, like I think it’s professional slash, casual, but I’m not. But I’m never going to be fully full on formal and professional. That makes sense.

Stacy Jones: Well, you have to understand that when I write I do a lot of F bombs. So that’s my professional brand

Simon: love that I love that.

Stacy Jones: And so, okay, so what have you learned from all of this? Besides the fact that you can actually not be a introvert, and that you can actually create yourself into being an extrovert, something that I strongly believe in. I think that in life, if you want to change who you are, if you look at yourself from the outside, and you put steps in place. You can change how others perceive you very easily, and you’ve done that obviously

Simon: so sorry. The question is, what else? What else has this done, do you think for you?

Stacy Jones: you seem to feel more confident.

Simon: Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, confidence. But I think I understand. People love it better, because in in order in order to grow a community and events, you have to understand your audience.

Simon: and you have to do everything. Every single move that you make has to be for them. humans are very

Simon: we can pick up on queues, and we can tell when something is not authentic, and when and when something is done. not for them, but to promote someone else. And people can also tell when you’re selling

Simon: as well. So I’ve learned that in order to

Simon: grow in communities, I just have to listen to the room. I’ll give an example. I run events for a founders

Simon: and also run events for tech Junior tech candidates and also run events for Hr candidates. Each one of these buckets I need to. I need to do a do events, and I need to.

Simon: I need to do events differently, and I need to make sure that the people in the room are are very specific to that. Audience. Founders don’t really want to connect with young talent, not because they don’t want to do, not at all, because they don’t have the bandwidth.

Simon: They don’t. They literally don’t have the bandwidth they would love to. They would love to venture people, but they have to be. They have to be choosing. They can’t mentor , people, they can’t So so so, my founder events only founders come to the events, and not just that founders of a specific

Simon: stage. So the founders come to my events are to figures.

Simon: to employees. I’m not gonna bring founders that have employees to my event, because they’re just not gonna have the same challenges as founders with to employees

Simon: and also founders with to million dollars are dealing with different challenges than founders with, you know, one to million dollars in revenue, and so that has to be very specific as well. And the types of

Simon: conversations with the topics that we talked about also has to be different. So understanding who’s in the room and curating, curating the community so that it matches the people in the room still so important. And I learned all of this literally just months ago.

Simon: Everything has been very brand new. I don’t consider myself an expert at all. I think I just want the best for the people in the room. And that’s why, when we first started our very first event, it was literally founders having beers together, founders that came on my podcast I just wanted to thank them like. That’s how it all started. And then we we met again the month later, and they all brought a different founder friend. So that became founders in a room.

Simon: and then from founders we go to ,

Simon: , It was just because I was thinking about the people in the room.

Stacy Jones: and you were finding ways that it would be beneficial for them to actually

Stacy Jones: come together and talk that they truly were peers, and by removing that. Okay, here’s your young blood. He’s just eager to try to like, make an impression and maybe get a job which is just exhausting to be around because the energy isn’t in even exchange. When the people are talking. one is thinking, and one is giving. And so what you’re doing is you’re really finding a balance where people are able to be at ease because no one’s trying to take

Simon: exactly

Simon: exactly exactly and same thing. For at the Hr. Events.

Simon: right when we run the Hr. Events. If we bring the job candidates there, same thing, they’re gonna sucking all this information out of the Hr people. They just want a job.

Simon: So it’s going to be like, you know, going to the club or at the bar. And then, you know the the Hr person is like a pretty girl, and then like to solve these like a single pretty girl. And then all these guys are just pounding off like it’s going to feel kind of like that. And so with my Hr. Events very similar same thing. I only bring Hr people to events. So hr the heads of like we’ve had the head of Hr. From Amazon.

Simon: Our tyrics big big companies that can name all of them. I’ll stop my head Scotia Bank. They’ve all come because they know that they’re just networking with their peers, and I think there’s so much power in that, and if they, if we were to bring someone

Simon: to to the space, it has to be someone that provides value where they can, where there’s an even exchange of of value right? And so one thing that I thought about for founders is bringing Vc people, because Vc people want to connect with founders and founders want to connect with Vc. That would be a value. Add right? And then for Hr. maybe maybe there’s a way to for us to bring a job candidates. But it has to be an even exchange in in knowledge.

Simon: so yeah, just understand, I think, gotten really good at understanding the community aspect and

Simon: and knowing how to give to the community.

Stacy Jones: So what’s been your secret behind marketing, your podcast how you approach that

Simon: honestly, I think a huge part is just the hot sauce.

Simon: the hot sauce, is it? It acts as a metaphor, and also it is.

Simon: it is fun and the metaphor for the podcast is, bring your bring your to self to the podcast

Simon: and so we get all these people for C suites and founders of million dollar companies, million dollar companies. This couple of weeks ago there was a company, a Cmo of a million dollar company came on

Simon: based in California. And

Simon: how do we bring themselves to the podcast

Simon: right up the back, like right away. You know how sometimes the podcast it it feels a little step in the beginning, and then you slowly, slowly get into the rhythm. How do you get it into the mood? How do you get people into the mood right away. Sort of hot sauce right away, right away.

Simon: Your whole body is kind of calm. You’re relaxed. You’re trying to stop this not coming out of your nose. So there’s other things that you have to worry about.

Simon: And I so you just speaking now like just casually, it just like yourself. it’s I think that was a huge piece dollar pieces

Simon: constantly getting amazing guests on the show. when we first started.

Simon: companies just wouldn’t come on because they’re like, why would I take shots of hot sauce on your show? Right? You can imagine we actually got rejection from a lot of companies. I think one in one in companies would say yes to the show

Simon: as we got more and more case studies and more and more companies.

Simon: especially episode or . Microsoft came on the show once Microsoft came on the show. It kind of opened up the flood gates

Simon: companies you know, in the beginning, companies, like million dollars in size would barely want to come on right. And now we’re getting companies of million million million dollars recently just got a company that does a billion dollars of re revenue per year. That’s probably the largest company that ever has come on

Simon: we we never could have gotten this. Have we not continuously level up our our guests? Every single, every single episodes.

Simon: my team and I, we we calibrate and we increase the bar. So if it, if it used to be million dollars minimum to come on. The show then became , and then . of course.

Simon: dollar amount is just one piece of it.

Simon: but some. Sometimes we have an amazing guest that does million dollars in revenue amazing. And they’re growing so fast. And they hit and and and the guys a excellent speaker, and everything will bring them on the show as well. So then, we have different categories that we take a look at, but just always

Simon: like improving On on our quality of our guests?

Stacy Jones: Or is it that the name of the Microsoft, the Jenny Craig, the different companies that are there that are managing to kind of get registered by people on their tuning in because they’re like, Oh, this must be a podcast and value because here are all these head hunt shows at big named companies.

Simon: I think it’s both When when you’re a Cmo at a company that does million dollars in revenue you, you’d typically have a team of or or . That’s reports to you, or

Simon: most of the team knows you because you have the C-suite, and you’re the founder. And so what we found is that these big companies especially when this Cmo. Has a lot of fun in the show. He or she will share it with their team, and then all that automatically shares out on the company channel. That’s automatically lessons right away just from their team. So it’s like a combination of both. but we just never we never straight away from the quality, like the quality of what’s just the most important thing.

Simon: because, especially with the show where I’m I’m not the main I’m not the main you know, Star. I’m only the person that’s facilitating the main stars are the guests, so I need to make sure that the guests coming on the show are are are amazing.

Stacy Jones: Are there any things that you have learned that you’re like, oh, we would never do this again

Simon: on the podcast

Simon: that’s a great question never been asked that before.

Simon: Hmm.

Simon: let me answer about the community piece. First, because I I’m I’m running into an event in about min. So so that’s on top of mine. One thing that I’ve learned from community building.

Simon: don’t bring people to the event just to increase headcount.

Simon: We’ve let in a few people that we’re not by. For very good example, the founder events. It’s called a founders happy Hour, and very early on it let in a couple of people that weren’t founders

Simon: that didn’t provide value.

Simon: There’s a difference. There’s people that are not founders that actually can provide value. But there’s some people that are not founders and does not provide value. And it’s trying to sell to these founders

Simon: held a whole vibe. So the whole vibe of the events. And like when you, when you, when you’re building a community, and you bring someone that does not belong. It’s like a black mold, and black mold will only just spread.

Simon: And so especially then then, the next time the founder wants to invite someone they’re like, Oh, well, you invited this person. I felt like, this is a pretty, very similar like.

Simon: No, I want to bring my salesperson. Can I bring my business development like? No.

Simon: So that was a huge lesson learned. I’m still trying to combat that. The obviously you want to make this about the community? You don’t. You don’t want to be like, you know, this dictator that’s dictating who’s coming on the list. But you kind of have to be

Simon: in a nice way. And so I’m learning. I’m learning that

Stacy Jones: I think we also have events when you’re doing networking events. The challenge here is, people don’t like going to things so low, so much. People like having someone who is in hand, whether it’s a significant other, whether it’s a friend whether it’s a business colleague, whether it’s a partner.

Stacy Jones: People like having that backup because

Stacy Jones: you might get to the event and super easy and talking is great, but you have the obstacle in your head that it might not be, and that you might not be able to

Stacy Jones: blend in as well or not. Everyone is great about showing up in a room of people and in being on, as you’ve noted yourself. So that’s the problem, I think, with some of the networking events that happen where you do absolutely lose something if you don’t have it just with the need. But then you also everyone needs their like their support pet.

Stacy Jones: basically, are you? Would you consider Stacy? Would you consider yourself an introvert or a restaurant? So I am at heart and introvert, and I made myself into an extrovert at a very early age, so I made myself into a salesperson for my first lemonade stand.

Simon: So that is me as well. I feel like you and I are on same way. That is why we think about that. That’s why we think about. Oh, you need a plus one. And so I created my events purposely. So you don’t need a plus one, and you won’t ever feel like you don’t belong, because the worst part about a networking event is you go there, and you’re just sitting there sipping on a drink by the bar while everyone is talking, and happens all the time. Right, my events, when you, when you come in

Simon: there are, you know you. You mix a mingle a little bit. There’s going to be some people that are the introverts that you and I that are sitting in the corner, and they didn’t bring anyone and don’t know anyone

Simon: right away. As soon as everyone shows up immediately I’m on the mic, and I split everyone up into groups of , and you’re in a and you’re in a breakout session with other founders, and you introduce yourself right away. There is no, there is no waiting dating right into the dating, and then you talk for min, and then I and then I you know, stop my finger. We’re rotating, and I I have a list already. So now you’re rotating your meeting and the other founders.

Simon: So right in the first min, you’ve met to founders.

Simon: and you can’t help but to feed off of the energy of everyone. And you already not only are you listening.

Simon: you’re actively participating. You have to participate. And now you turn. You go from introverted Stacy to

Simon: extroverts. They see in a few seconds, and maybe once we go back to the open networking. Maybe you go back to the Introverted. They see again.

Simon: I found with these events. I never going back to introverted mode, because I know there’s only h left, and I drove min into the city to meet people. I know that these people want to meet people. The hardest part is just getting them out of their shell, and so I know what it’s like to be an introvert.

Simon: I I know what it takes to push out of the boundary, and so everything is designed to be introvert and extra work friendly. So yeah.

Stacy Jones: and so on. That note that I had mentioned before, I’m going to bring you back to it. Is there anything you have learned that was potentially a mistake. As you’ve launched your podcast where you would not want to go down that road again, or it’d be one of the top things should tell someone not to do.

Simon: Oh, yes.

Simon: I would say like very similar to this to the to what I found with the communities.

Simon: I brought on guests that were just not the right fit.

Simon: and I’ll explain. I’ll explain on my show. It’s about fun.

Simon: It’s about taking shots of hot sauce it’s about. It’s about being authentic. And so I in very early on, I’ve had people come on the show that didn’t like hot sauce

Stacy Jones: up there, but entirely

Simon: stick out the but the entire time I’m not going to have shots of hot sauce. There’s no way. But I really wanted them on, because they were a bigger company that this was early on when I couldn’t get a company that was even million dollars to come on my show. And so this one company was like million dollars in revenue. So I’m like.

Simon: Okay, you know what I I I’ll just do it for this one episode, and then I did it again for another episode, and then I didn’t get it for another episode.

Simon: I kept going against my own belief and the theme of the show. And if you’re the host of A, podcast the whole podcast will and the theme and the and the whole, feel, it’s gonna revolve around you. You’re gonna dictate this. And so I went against my own heart.

Simon: and I got on these. I got on a couple of people that fake shots of hot sauce they like covered. They covered this shot, they put it in the shot glass, and they covered it, and there was nothing inside.

Simon: or like they will put catch up, or they will put the hot sauce into the into the spoon, and they’ll just like lick it and not have it, and just like fake it. And it just looked so bad those episodes did so bad the clips did that the absolutely

Simon: and the energy was off as well, because I knew, as I was recording the show, I knew that the the person was faking. and so I. It brought my the whole mood down as well, because now

Simon: I feel like I’m also have to fake like it just feels like this is not authentic energy.

Simon: and so I couldn’t bring my authentic self as well.

Stacy Jones: Yeah.

Simon: So it’s just like that was like a I’m not gonna name the episodes, but it was like it. Just. It was very early on. And I said, never again.

Simon: Yeah. Episode . I remember I had an opportunity to interview a fast food chain that a lot of a lot of Americans know.

Simon: I’m not gonna say the name, but it’s a big Comp big fast food chain that does million dollars a year in revenue

Simon: roughly. No, but it wasn’t. It wasn’t released because she could not. She or he could not do hot sauce. And and so I made the decision around episode that I was not going to

Simon: do. I was not going to go against my own heart, and I said no to this company that would have been the biggest company at the time.

Simon: Come on the show. It would have made our show awesome. It’s a very well known chain that everyone knows in the Us. And I said no, and so you’ve had bigger sense.

Simon: But since then I’ve had bigger companies, bigger a C suite, bigger founders come on because I’ve stayed true to the, to, to the theme of the show. Yeah.

Stacy Jones: have you had any guess? The size being moon killers like, have you experienced it? The people who show up to be on it, and who are genuine?

Stacy Jones: Have you had any bad guests, or have you discovered that pretty much. Everyone can be an incredibly awesome guest, even the ones that you have the lowest expectations of.

Simon: I so baited you on that one. Yeah, you did. You did so. So yes, the first part. Yes, I’ve had some people come on the show that just was not the right fit, and after the fact, I just didn’t

Simon: upload episode.

Simon: and I’ll tell them, and I’ll tell them. we. I’ll tell them the reason why. We can re-record, or if I’m saying it’s just, you know, it’s just sometimes I’ll just

Simon: kind of say the politically correct way. I’ll try to be nice, and I’ll just say You know, we’re we’re we’re pausing on season one right now. We’re gonna do season . But for people listening right now, you just know, it just wasn’t the right fit. Maybe the person didn’t have as much experience right? Maybe this is the person’s first episode. I’ve had some first episodes, and you never want to be the first

Simon: that’s part one. But number , I think you as a as a host like you’re a good host because you’re listening, and you’re and you’re allowing, and you’re asking the right questions. But the host can make a huge difference in making the person feel comfortable.

Simon: So I use my secret hot sauce.

Simon: My secret sauce to making people feel comfortable is my hot sauce right? But also the questions make a big difference, and also the reaction to their questions while while they’re talking, I’m reacting. And I’m like, Oh, my God, that’s good. And it’s like people can feel the vibe, and the energy is casual, especially for the beginner podcasters that don’t know how to speak on a podcast

Simon: you want to encourage them, and you want to give them as much positive feedback and energy as possible to make them the best guess on your show. So I think it’s possible. So to your second question is possible to make a bad guess into a better guess.

Stacy Jones: I think my experience has been, I have. So I’ve had over podcasts. I don’t know where we’re at, right. The second I’d have to look. But that’s wild. That’s a lifetime. It’s it’s a lot when you start thinking about it. But I would say I have had less than bad guess.

Stacy Jones: and it’s been bad. They have been really crappy and really bad, like my God! Bad! I have had people who are okay.

Stacy Jones: but the majority of people. It’s been a really interesting learning lesson, because one of the reasons. I love doing this podcast is learning about other people and what they’re doing. And it’s a great way for me to up my own

Stacy Jones: intelligence and of known and knowledge of what’s going on out there.

Stacy Jones: But I will read Bios, and I’m like, why is this person coming on the show? And I’ve learned that you can change with your outlook.

Stacy Jones: anything into being something that’s a good result for the listeners on air, and that’s what it is on it. And so I haven’t learned myself, and to try to apply this to other situations and scenarios in my life as well. Where there’s a oh, it’s a disappointment. It’s not going to be so great.

Stacy Jones: where I’ve shocked and surprised myself so many times where it actually has turned into something that’s great through the podcasting experience that it’s changed my outlook as well. So I think that’s one of the big things that podcasting can do for you.

Simon: I am a huge believer in podcasting anyone starting out their career doesn’t know what to do. If you ever question, what do I do next? Start a, podcast it is there is nothing. You can. You can’t go wrong with it. Because you can, you decide the fate of your podcast. You choose who comes on your podcast. You choose the topic and you’re just going to be a better speaker. So if anything, you just become a better win theater

Stacy Jones: assignment. How can our listeners find your podcast can you share that again. We’ll put them in the show notes, but they want to know more about you. What’s your threads, Linkedin? All of that good stuff?

Simon: Oh, threads that that’s gonna be a tough one. diamond.

Simon: DC, Chow.

Simon: I’ll I’ll share it in. And in the show notes, probably. And then on on Linkedin Simon Chow, the hou, and there’s a little red pepper after my name, or that that indicates the hot sauce that I take on my show you can honestly, between these you can find everything that I’m working on,

Simon: and then the podcast called marking on Mars. But again. as long as you’re on my Linkedin, everything is through my Linkedin.

Stacy Jones: Okay? Well, Simon, any last parting words of advice to our listeners today?

Simon: No, it’s been great. I felt like we. We spoke about so many different topics. Thank you so much for having me on your you’re an incredible host. And yeah, if we ever. I mean just you and I like, if there, if you ever want to do any events or anything or any collapse, super open anyone listening, that is doing events and go, hey? I want to do founder events in my city.

Simon: Let me know like I’ve I’ve actually I started off in Vancouver and I’m started. I’m starting to expand in Toronto in talks, early, early stage talks and also trying to get it out to California and New York. So maybe my founder events casual networking events will come out to a different city.

Stacy Jones: That’s exciting.

Stacy Jones: Well, congratulations on covid catapult with you into a whole new world and into becoming a whole new person.

Simon: Thank you so much, Stacey. We’ll catch up soon.

Stacy: And to all of our listeners thanks for tuning into another episode of marketing mistakes, and how to avoid them. Look forward to chatting with you this next week, and until then, if you happen to have interest in incorporating your brand into the hottest TV shows. Feature films, music videos out there through product placement and storyline integration reach out to me and I will connect and we can explore how we can make your brand a star. Have a great one.