EP358: Unlock Growth with Strategic Media Solutions With Alison Mayes | Apollo Partners

Stacy Jones:
Okay, last, take welcome to marking the mistakes and how to avoid them. I’m Stacey Jones. I’m also yeah., Welcome to marking mistakes and how to avoid them. I’m Stacey Jones. I’m so happy to be here today with you, and I want to give a very warm welcome to Allison. Mace, Allison is the managing director at Apollo partners, a full service, independent media agency, located in San Francisco with a year career spanning agencies, including Starcom, Maxes, Verizon, Omd. In essence, Alison knows more than a thing or about media strategy and client service and branded content while helping the lead media for the Pepsi accounted Omd. She and her team brought to life the mountain do lead the Brand’s first sponsored esports game tournament in partnership with the European Super League., Allison is also a vocal advocate for Female mentorship and support within the media and tech industries, today. Alice and I are going to be chatting about all things Median strategies to help clients grow their businesses successfully. We’ll learn what works from Allison’s perspective, what should be avoided, and how some brands just miss them more. Allison. Welcome. So happy to have you here today. Well, you and I were chatting a moment ago, and you have a long and storied career at working at some very large agencies, and I’d love for you to share how you got to here today. Where now you’re at an independent after going through all of that work.Alison Mayes:
Yeah, no, that’s great. great place to start. So when I was a child, my dad actually had a creative agency that he ran out of Manhattan, and so it was always kind of exposed to the advertising industry as a whole, much more obviously from the creative side of it. I did not inherit my father’s creativity, and I am terrible with design in terms of like. Don’t trust me with Photoshop, But I always was interested in advertising, and, to be honest, I took like one of the very first media planning courses at my at my college that they offered. It was kind of like a trial class, and sure lots of people saw the description, and then they were like media math that I was like signed me up so interesting. And from there there was just this like connection that I found really exciting.,You could understand how a consumer ticks and like what makes them decide one brand over the other. You know what the things are that, they value. And then you could actually match that and match it also with what they’re doing in their daily lives. So you can actually, you know, reach them, which is really the core of everything that we do within this industry. and so from there, you know, I went back to New York first thing, and I started working at Maxus, which was a small offshoot, but within group M. So we had, you know, the the large scale of, that agency behind us which was incredible. I kind of got like a nice little balance of being able to be in an entrepreneurial kind of team, but also have like such support, and backing from the larger agency as a whole. I kind of, I would say, cut my teeth, so to speak, within the P. Within the Cpg world, which, foundationally is a great place to start because they have a lot of rigor and process. You know, they’re really core on their reach and frequencies and things like that which is a great place to learn. You know. Some people say you kind of learn your or earn your Mba working on a brand like Png, which you know I’ve I’ve done that as well, and working on the Png business. I participated in the launch of the sequel, which at the time didn’t exist, you know. And now we’ve got like a huge sleep aid, market. That is now huge, but from there I you know, worked across different pillars of the business. Different clients sets. Most recently I was working on the Pepsi business for a long time out of Omd. And then I worked on the Google business. and I ran one of the larger teams within the essence team there., And yeah, it was a big transition for me to go from a a large agency background, a large team that I was managing the essence team that I managed. you know, indirectly, I manage probably about people, which you know is huge, and then to move to a small quote of like Start up media agency was was a big change. But I think you know again kind of tying it back to my father and the fact that, he owned his own company, you know, decades ago it was exciting to be able to see the impact of, was doing more readily. You know I can make a decision now at Apollo about, you know. Are we going to participate in the business? Pitch or not? and I can really see the impact of what I’m delivering for the client, and how satisfied and how happy they are! You could see the direct impact of the media that you’re placing and things like that. So it’s definitely been a bit of a change from like a a size perspective. But it’s been an exciting change, and I am really excited by new challenges.Stacy Jones:
Well, as the founder and owner of a small agency where we have, you know, we turned up to people or so at a time, big difference from a giant company, but it offers some really unique cool things. I mean, there’s benefits on both side of it. But you get to do so much more, and you’re so much more instrumental in the impact that you make on clients and team members when you’re working in a small organization for a large one. So I’m hoping you’re you’re going to enjoy this. And it’s going to be like a wow, I get what my dad was doing. I love this world and more entrepreneurialism.Alison Mayes:
Yeah, so far, it’s been really fulfilling. I’ve been here with the team since September. And so, you know, I’m kind of coming up on that year, Mark, and when I speak to the founder, Eric Perco, you know I tell him like I don’t ever think back and and think, you know. Oh, this is a tough decision, I actually think. Why didn’t I do this sooner? Because I enjoy it so much more. I think you know, just like what you were saying is, you know, you can make more of an impact on the teams and things like that, but I think the clients feel it, too, when they’re serviced at a level where they have hundreds of people or tens of people that touch their business. It can feel really easy to feel actually the opposite that, you know, there’s almost no one to talk to who exactly is taking care of my campaigns, and who exactly is keeping an eye on everything like that. So I think the clients feel that in the different way, too, which is partially why we’re we’re trying to stay small so that we can drive that impact with the clients too.

Stacy Jones:
Well, you end up not having as many resources be able to pull from right whether it’s people resources, software resources. Because I mean large scale media agencies subscribe to a lot of stuff. And even as a small agency you can subscribe to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stuff. But you’re not typically subscribing to the millions of dollars worth of stuff., but it’s not necessarily needed either. You have plenty of companies and brands who do extremely well. With that more handheld approach of a smaller agency, who’s a little more nimble for them also, and I think it depends a lot on a Brand’s life stage, you know, if you’re not a Procter and Gamble. You’re not a Pepsi, you know. You’re someone who’s a a little smaller than that which is most companies out there., It is nice, actually knowing your team members and kind of having more of a knowledge of how you’re impacting their agency and how their agency is impacting you, too.

Alison Mayes:
Yeah, absolutely. I think I think there’s been a bit of a misnomer in the industry for a while that you can only get serviced, or only get some of the bells and whistles you kind of just mentioned from the larger scale agencies. And I think over since the pandemic. Really, I think it kind of reset that in terms of, you can still get the same service, and quite quickly we have access to all the tools that we need, that the large scale agencies pay for, and you get better service, and we have, the ability to make the same kind of partnership recommendations that the large scale agencies do you know it used to be? Oh, you have to be with the clout of a ex holding company in order to have a super bowl spot. That’s not the case. Right? Like you need the connection. And as long as you can have and make that connection we can do it for you, and arguably, sometimes better, because, it’s a more one to one relationship, and sometimes that gets caught up in the larger scale agencies.

Stacy Jones:
Especially if the company you’re working with is a little more entrepreneurial also in its nature and self. I think that’s where it can really help. And you see, you know, it just thrive with people working with people. Yes, absolutely. And that’s what this business is with the end of the day is it’s your team. It’s your clients. It’s your relationships. First and foremost, I always say, because you know, my background really has been client service and client leadership.

Alison Mayes:
It goes down to how your relationship is, and it needs to have a strong foundation because it is people at at the end of the day.

Stacy Jones:
So with people, if you are going to shed some light on working with clients and it. And how is it different for you like when you’re starting to work with a client? Now you know what is the difference of our approach from an independent versus a large scale agency? How are you?

Alison Mayes: coming to the table and changing your approach
where I actually think it’s beneficial to be because it’s so. Relationship driven this business. It’s really important to be honest. And sometimes, to be honest, you have to say, no, you can provide an alternative solution absolutely. But, in order for a client to really trust you, they need to know that you’re gonna give them push back. Maybe they want to go into a partnership, or, you know, have a partner on the plan that really doesn’t make sense for them. We need to be able to rely back onto that trust building relationship and say, I don’t recommend this or this isn’t what’s right for your business. And I think that’s really what, ha is is more able to happen at a smaller agency, because that’s really what’s more embraced, I would say.

Stacy Jones: Well, in that way it’s smaller agencies, looking at more of a partnership with the brand versus being a vendor.

Alison Mayes:
absolutely. And that’s really what it comes down to is is that partnership piece., What else do you do? Is there anything else that’s different in their approach?, It’s being proactive. And you know, I think one of the things I’ve I’ve enjoyed about this. The shift that I’ve made is there’s a lot more room for kind of like future thinking and head space versus just getting buried in the sand. Those like this is the immediate problem that I have to deal with. And so it’s really about what’s next on the horizon, you know. I think., you know, things like, how can we integrate like AI into what we’re doing? And how is the client going to be at the forefront of, the next technology. What about, the future without cookies? And you know those larger, bigger problems that are going to be coming down for the clients versus just the immediate, you know., Cpm, focus, or something like that., And so with your team, how is it different working with the smaller team? Or does it feel the same, even though I people to manage now. No, it’s great what we’ve done and have huge success on, because we’re also spread out, which I think is a lot more of the norm. Now. in the post kind of like Covid world, which I really appreciate. I think that you know, being able to have flexibility to work from home. Or we have. We work locations. And so, you know, like, today, I’m I’m in the we work. But I have that flexibility., one of the things that I think we’re really able to do is make, quick decisions. And you know, really like action against that stuff. I hope you did you get that notification? Will you be able to edit that out? Didn’t get a notification. But yeah, it was trimming for another meeting. If our listeners happen to hear trying that I did not hear., You know, we can really make, decisions on the fly and do them quickly with just a core set, whereas, you know before sometimes it was, you know., decision by committee to some degree, and, you know, particularly in my role as managing director. I have the ability to, you know. Let’s make that executive decision. Let’s let’s move on. I was on a meeting this morning, and you know there was debate on. Should we do it this way, or should we do it that way? And I said., Guys, let’s do it this way. You know, we didn’t have to kind of like. Ask all of the people, or run it up the ladder, or, so to speak. So And I feel like, clients also recognize that. And when it comes down to., you know, hours and efficiency, there are so many different scales of efficiency that I feel like are, are impacted in a positive way. When you have a small team, you know, you’re nimble and you can move quickly. And it’s you’re not turning the cruise ship around.

Stacy Jones:
and the only the the flip side of that is that you are nimble, and you’re not turning the cruise ship around. But it’s working with clients who are not trying to get you to turn the cruise ship in circles

Alison Mayes:
And making sure that you are not going off on tangents just because you can create quick decisions, because I have had many clients over the years with that where they see how nimble we are. And so they think that you can go down a path, and then you can just change, and you can change, and they can change. And then all you end up doing is burning time and dollars, obviously, in making all of those changes., but definitely experience that as well. and it can be sometimes it’s kind of exciting, because you’re like, Oh, you know another another change, and like, let’s explore this other option. But you’re right sometimes. It’s hard to kind of take a little bit of a step back, and what I always like to ask as well is, it’s not really about the question that you’re asking., Why are you asking that question? And if we can understand that with our clients we can usually take it a step above to actually fulfill what they’re trying to get, you know. Sure they’re trying to get maybe a number or something to share with leadership. But, the why behind it is really what is crucial and to some degree can help with some of the run around. Not always. But

Stacy Jones:
So when you’re working with your team and you’re working with a new client, and you’ve decided that. Yes, you’ve you’ve green lighted that Rfp. That you’ve just mentioned your all sales ahead. You want you want it. How do you start working with the client? How do you make sure that they’re happy in their approach? Working with you? Yeah, I think it’s about setting expectations from the forefront. You know. What we do is we have a pretty robust, even though we’re

Alison Mayes:
A quote unquote small agency. We have a lot of really good process in place, a lot of the team that I work with has come from. You know, the biggest agencies in the world. A lot of us have run the biggest brands in the world like the Google’s. And you know., the cache of that. And so we have a lot of process in place in terms of you know, this is sort of the onboarding like these are the things that we’re gonna need, so that we can understand and get under the hood on your business. And then I think it’s really important to, put in those those checkpoints at the beginning. It I’ll be. It doesn’t feel like super organic. So sometimes hop on a one on one or what not. But you really need to develop that relationship from the onset, and also try to, make it more than just about the business, you know. You really do need to try to see if you can peel the onion back a little bit is what I always like to try to say, And then you have, you know, things like regular checkpoints and follow ups to, you know. If we just did, for example, on a client. We had a big recommendation last week, you know. It’s about following up with them, you know just me separately. You know, we had this presentation. You know what were your thoughts, we’d love feedback, positive or negative, right? And I think I think, even to that point, welcoming sometimes call it negative feedback is actually really important, because that’s, it’s how you learn. And that’s how ultimately you can improve the deliverables that we have for the clients or whatnot. I think again back to my kind of like, no philosophy. it’s not scary to get negative feedback because it helps you change, and it helps you grow as a team, as a company and as a partnership really.

Stacy Jones:
Well, it also just helps with communication, because that’s the biggest issue. I think a lot of times with clients and agencies where everyone is thinking they’re rowing in the right direction together., and there’s just little bumps that can happen along the way, and if you allow the negative constructive feedback to come in, it kind of pops a balloon a little bit with a client, instead of allowing perceived resentments to start, adding up and adding up for any little tiny slight that one team member happens to do, including how they might sign their email, whatever it might be. That’s to the point of ridiculousness. Or maybe there’s just something that’s missing. Or maybe there is something about the culture of the brand that the agency just doesn’t know, and they haven’t been on boarded about, and because they haven’t worked with them for the last decade. They don’t know about these little ticks that they need to know., so that feedback is so vital in order to keep a long term relationship going, and also to allow the client to understand that they can say they’re unhappy about something. They don’t have to pretend that everything is like awesome and fantastic and wonderful when they actually are bugged by a little something. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think it’s also important to maintain touch points across

Alison Mayes:
All of the agency partners that clients work on. You know, I think, from a media perspective. So we’re, you know, a a traditional full service media agency. But, it’s really important that we have really strong relationships with our creative teams, whether it be, you know, the full service, creative or social, creative or whatnot, because of that same thing. You know, it’s I’ve many times in my career, particularly like in the earlier days, you’d have the creative team going off on one complete, you know, mental path. And then the media plan comes due. And it’s like, well, we don’t even have TV. And you guys created a TV spot., So it’s also really about making sure everyone’s kind of on board with those regular touch points. and you know, on like a tactical level, the recommendation that I just mentioned we presented last week we had met multiple times with the clients to say, this is how we’re interpreting your brief. This is the kind of like bones of what we’re putting together on the outline. And does this make sense with you? We met multiple times with the creative agency, even though the plan wasn’t approved., Here’s what we’re thinking about that’s going to be on the creative deliverable that that’s on your team. But you know, we wanted to make sure we’re all in sync on that stuff. So to your point, you know there aren’t any kind of, perceptions along the way that people are are taking away that not everyone else. And I think you just said something that is super valuable. That’s a little bit different in from what we’re talking about. But really we should hone in and dive into it a little bit more. You just said that you’re involved in an Rfp. So request for a proposal for anyone who doesn’t know what an Rfp. Is.,and you asked questions, and then you can continue to ask questions which is the absolute inverse. How a lot of agencies work and and brand managers out there who are listening into this, you know. Please know, that

Stacy Jones:
You all can get a better Rfp and a better response if you actually set up. Q. A’s. You actually engage with the agencies or the vendors that are talking to you, because otherwise it’s such a siloed world that you’re not actually giving the agency the benefit of a true discovery

Alison Mayes:
About who your brand is, in a deep enough dive into what the goals and objectives typically are, and that black and white on the paper does not translate always into the proposal you’re expecting at the end of the day. Yeah, a hundred percent. And even even when you do have a call with, say, like a client, you know, they’re briefing you on the next campaign is, let’s just say back to school or something, even if they walk you through that brief., when you sit on it and marinate on it it. There are different questions, and then, when you put it back into the terms of what your agency does., You know, in my my experience, I’m you know, on the media side, but, like what I interpret from a broad brief is, gonna be different than what a creative agency interprets, and oftentimes what we, what we do that we see success with is exactly to your point. It’s it’s a, this is our kind of like regurgitation of the brief. This is our interpretation of what you’ve asked us to do. Does this ladder back to what you’re actually asking or or not? And then, yes, like, here’s the outstanding list of questions that we have because of it. So yeah, it can definitely sometimes feel like a, and then comfortable thing to your point to kind of like, go back to a client or a vendor, or whomever it may be, and say I have questions., But ultimately that’s how you get better. Better work across the board, in my opinion. Yeah. And it should actually be a red flag for any agency who is working on an Rfp. With a brand who’s refusing to answer your questions. So waste of your time. Very likely they already have someone else who’s up that Rfp. They’re just putting you through because procurement requires it, or an upper management. Someone said, Oh, we should have more bids that come in on this, and they already know who they want, because that’s why they’re not giving that time of day right? And I think the the, vice versa is true, too. If a agency isn’t asking questions, that’s also a red flag to me, you know. Are they not invested, or have they not spent the time on the project, or something like that? But

Stacy Jones:
questions are important. It’s interesting. Just Rfp is in general, I mean, I know a lot of agencies who are refusing to do, and in general are of piece unless they get the , sit down time unless they get to, you know, that’s part of their own,consideration of working with the brand, because brands can have a habit. Sometimes it’s spinning out a lot of proposal requests to a lot of companies. and I even have a mentor who says that you should not respond unless they let you know who else is in on that pitch?,I have yet to really, actually meet anyone who lets me know who is actually, truly all of the people who are on on the pitch. But it’s an interesting question to ask.

Alison Mayes:
Did they give you the number? That’s what we’ve had success with is, can you tell us how many other agencies are participating., Usually usually we will get that It’s funny that you said that Eric and I had an experience in the fall of last year, where we were told that we were Number in an Rfp. And that’s a lot. And you know he was like, I have this rule. I have a number, you know. I kind of want to back out at this point, and I was like, Let’s stay the course. Let’s do it., And the great, because we want the client you’re like, I told you so it’s true, like we’ve done the same thing. We’ve gotten through our ofps. And we’ve found out, you know, like looking at who is bidding on it. And they’re not even our peers that are not even who we consider our competition, and we’ve ended up winning the business before. And so it’s interesting how Brand sometimes can just

Stacy Jones:
send out something, and they really are not sure what they want, but they figure it out based on how you respond., So one of the other topics that I had very briefly mentioned in your bio is your very outspoken and very strongly health beliefs and supporting women in the agency world. And obviously I can say how you got to have these beliefs and feelings is because you are a woman. I I I you say that., But what is it that you see is happening right now for younger women in the space.

Alison Mayes:
I am proud to say that the industry is changing. I will couch that with the fact that, you know. Do I think it’s changing enough. No. Is it changing as dramatically as I would like it to also know? But I do see some change which is overall positive, I would say. You know, I entered the, you know, large scale media age agency world plus years ago, and, there were lots of women in the lower or like mid-tier, runs of the leadership ladder, but everyone up above was was heavily male, and you know, very homogeneous, let’s say And I have seen a lot of success, and and seeing some of that change, you know I do think it’s still a long road., but I think it’s really important that we, as women see one another in those places and support one another in those places. You know I’m I’m not where I am today without the women who made it possible for me, who supported me, who mentored me, and who really, you know, advocated for me, and you know how I try to, think about trying to pay it back is really supporting those, whether they be underneath me. That I am, you know, senior, to making sure that I’m mentoring them in the right ways. but also just supporting those around me. I think there’s still a really long way to go in this industry when it comes to diversity inclusion. And you know., equity, there’s a really long way to go. I, personally have a mixed race, daughter, and I want to see more of that in the leadership within this industry. And I think we just need to force the change. We need it to happen, because that’s also tying back to our cultural identity in the United States, too, you know, we need to represent what we are.

Stacy Jones:
Well, I think that you know, for of consumers or women. And so if you actually have women on your agency teams and in higher executive positions, they are going to build your be able to communicate to that % of

Alison Mayes:
People who think a little bit more along the lines that they do a hundred percent right? I mean, and that’s that’s another reason to diversity is also so key. But yes, I mean, women are so instrumental when it comes to the buying power that we have the influence that we have in the marketplace. And, you know, again, I think there have been strides that have been made, and and how advertisers communicate to women. But It’s important to have us at the table to be participating in those conversations. I recently heard an totally that there were a bunch of finance companies that got together a couple of months ago to talk about work from home, go back to work or go back to work, go back to the office, and there was one female at the table., you know, and half of their workforce is female. How how is it not represented at the table when they’re making core decisions like that.

Stacy Jones:
It’s not. And you know, even I was just in New York for some of the upfronts. And when you walk into any of those network upfronts. Typically, you’re seeing white men in their fifties, sixties in the leadership roles that all the tables are hop knobbing around. And you see, younger women. But it’s typically more in support roles. and not in strong leadership roles.

Alison Mayes:
Yeah, yeah, agreed. And I think we just really need to challenge that status quo, you know. Unfortunately, I think as a woman, we’re also., you know, we’re asked different questions in those in those kind of conversations. I was recently at a business meeting, and someone made a couple of comments about my my age

Stacy Jones:
and tying it to like my my leadership status and it. But I’m going to interrupt real fast. So for our listeners, like I have no idea how old Allison is, because she looks a lot younger, I think, than she actually is, but she could. She could be, you know, over that. I like. Who knows? She’s not someone that looks old. She’s not someone who looks at all. She looks like she’s kind of in the center of her career and rising. Obviously, we know she has a daughter, so she’s not years old. She could be, but she’s not you know. So keep on going.

Alison Mayes:
That’s back to that point, you know. That’s not a an age related comment is just not something. I I think men often get in the industry and it kind of ties back to the You know how? you know, we sometimes doubt our ourselves as I’m in. And I think you know, we really need to not do that because we are incredible in the workforce.

Stacy Jones:
I think women can multitask better again. This is just from having managed hundreds of people from my own career, but I think in general I value them in in our agency a lot, and typically are and and men have a different way of looking at things is really interesting, putting us all at the same table, because there are different thoughts that come out of different people, and whether it’s age, whether it’s sex, whether it is race, all of those that diversity actually really does result in one thing being looked at in so many ways differently, which is phenomenon. I don’t know if you’re not in that setting. If you don’t actually see that at work, if you understand what you’re missing, if you don’t have that, yeah, , I’ve always really advocated for the fact that there’s more ways to the right answer.

Alison Mayes: Then one you know you are, gonna take a different approach. Then I will to get to maybe the same exact net thing, if that’s the right answer. But everybody’s perspective is going to drive a better result at the end. At the end of that conversation, and if we’re not sat at that table to help influence, it’s going to be very homogeneous. And that’s that’s not what it should be.

Stacy Jones:
So, Allison, how can our listeners find out more about y’all?

Alison Mayes:
So you can find us on Apollo partners? we are very active on our Linkedin. We look forward to engaging with some of you there.

Stacy Jones:
Perfect. And, Allison, thank you so much for joining today. Really appreciate your thoughts on the land of the media landscape for independent agencies versus large agencies diversity, equity, inclusion, and the importance, and especially with mentoring women in business. thank you for joining us. Thank you so much, Stacey. This is really fun. And to all of our listeners thank you for tuning in to another episode of marketing mistakes, and how to avoid them. I look forward to chatting with you this next week, and until then, if you have any questions ever about how you can leverage your brand in content movies and TV shows, product placement, music videos, all of those cool things that get chatter through social media and press reach out. Give Hollywood branded a call, and we’ll set up a call at time to speak with our team. Have a great one