EP 120: How To Automate Your Sales And Business Operations With Mangus Unemyr | Marketing Automation And AI Consultant

In this episode, Stacy sits down with Marketing Automation And AI Consultant Magnus Unemyr to share his knowledge about the best automation practices to boost your operations.

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Stacy: 00:00       

  • Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. I’m Stacy Jones, the founder of Influencer Marketing and branded content agency, Hollywood Branded. This podcast provides brand marketers a learning platform for topics for us to share their insights and knowledge on topics which make a direct impact on your business today. While it is impossible to be well versed on every topic and strategy that can improve bottom line results, my goal is to help you avoid making costly mistakes of time, energy, or money, whether you’re doing a DIY approach or hiring an expert to help. Let’s begin today’s discussion.

Speaker 2: 00:31               

  • Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. Here’s your host, Stacy Jones.

Stacy: 00:36                I

  • I’m so happy to be here with you all today and want to give a very warm welcome to Magnus Unemyr, who is joining us to discuss his over 20 years of experience in working in marketing automation. Magnus is a marketing automation and artificial intelligence consultant, author and speaker. He has in fact written five books on marketing automation, artificial intelligence and entrepreneurship. Based in Sweden, he works internationally and has given talks around the world on software development and digital marketing. His experience includes senior positions and the global software arena, including vice president of sales and marketing and software developer.

Stacy: 1:11             

  • Magnus has created leading edge marketing strategies using some of the world’s most advanced marketing automation tools, which can dramatically increase the capacity of small and midsize businesses to establish a global brand presence, increase leads and conversions and dramatically amplify their marketing efforts. His knowledge and experience in software development, marketing automation and AI places him in a very unique position to assist other companies in using these tools to improve customer interactions and grow revenue.

Stacy: 01:37               

  • Today we’re going to talk about how to automate your sales and business processes using marketing automation. We’ll learn what has worked from Magnus’s experience, what maybe could be avoided if you’re doing this yourself, and where other brands are missing the mark. Magnus, welcome.

Magnus: 01:49 

  • Thank you very much and thanks for having me here.

Stacy: 01:52 

  • Well, you are very welcome. I am thrilled to be talking to you today, because I love marketing automation, and I love AI and the potential. Can you tell us about a little, how long you’ve been doing what you do, a little bit about your background, where you were at, what got you to where you’re doing what you do today?

Magnus: 02:10  

  • Sure. I’ve been in the international software industry for well over two decades, and I mostly worked in international marketing, in that area, particularly in the microprocessor chip industry or the semiconductor chip industry. The last decade or so, I have been vice president of sales and marketing, I built a distributor network covering some 50 countries, then I was co-owner and co-founder of a software company where I acted as the vice president of sales and marketing for almost a decade.

Magnus: 02:46  

  • So I have been in the software industry for my entire life but spent most of that time in marketing. So I have one leg in marketing or internet marketing and the other leg in software technologies and I think marketing technology is the perfect combination of the two.

Stacy: 03:01   

  • Mm-hmm (affirmative). That’s awesome. How did you get involved in marketing automation? Do you think that most businesses are actually using it today, or is it something that they need to start using and why?

Magnus: 03:16  

  • To start with the first question, I was in a fairly small high tech company and we had a global customer base and we just couldn’t fly around to every business meeting and every country in different continents. So marketing automation and Internet marketing became a very cost effective way of reaching an international audience for a reasonably small company. And with a software background that was a really good fit as well.

Magnus: 03:42  

  • To answer your second question, I think that there are quite a bit of companies now starting to use marketing automation. I believe, the US is probably a little bit ahead compared to most European countries, but there are still a lot of potential here, but it’s not leveraged to its full potential. I believe that most companies actually should use marketing automation at least to some level, because currently most internet marketers and agencies are focusing on designing really pretty websites and trying to get traffic to them, and there is far too little effort into trying to convert that traffic into leads and paying customers. And that is what we can do with marketing automation. So leads generation and automated lead nurturing, basically.

Stacy: 04:32

  • So, like our agency uses HubSpot, and so they incorporate a lot of options for marketing automation where they let you build in calls to action on different landing pages, they make things for super turnkey on that. They allow you to set up email systems that will automatically ping someone once they sign up to read your newsletter, download your video, whatever it might be. Is this what you mean by marketing automation, or what specifically do you mean?

Magnus: 05:06

  • It can be, but if it is only a registration form or delivers the lead magnet in the landing page. And I would say about this probably more just email marketing. So to be more proper marketing automation, I think you need to add a little bit more logic. So for example, you can promote a webinar, and when you have an integration between the marketing automation system and your webinar platform, you can use your marketing automation system to send reminders one day and one hour before the webinar starts. And thanks to integration, where marketing automation system will actually know who attended the webinar, then you can send different nurturing email sequences to the attendees versus to the no-shows, for example. And when you can build more advanced workflows with flowchart logic that forms independent or autonomous decision logic that can adjust the outreach to different leads dependent on what we do or don’t do.

Stacy: 06:09 

  • Okay. And if we used another example besides a webinar, so if we have different listeners today who say, “Oh, for my business I would never conduct a webinar. That’s not something that we do.” How else could, business, brand and agency actually incorporate marketing automation?

Magnus: 06:26

  • It depends on what type of company you are, but if you are, for example, a smaller company or in the services business where you try to book consultation calls, for example, then you can drive traffic to a lead magnet where harvest leads in return for the free lead magnet, but then with nurturing emails could contain a contraction button, for example, on the lines of, “Click here to book a consultation call.” And then thanks to some integration, with an online calendar, then the prospect or the lead can actually themselves focus you to a time for the call when you can keep not offering a lead with the emails that deliver, for example, short video tutorials or other types of trust building content over time.

Magnus: 07:10

  • So if you’re more on the lines of, for example, a law firm, you could do something like that. If you’re more an e-commerce type of business then you would integrate your marketing automation system with the e-commerce platform and you could use, for example, RFM analysis, recency frequency and monetary value analysis, to work out who are your best customers, which customers are about to defect, and which are your medium grade customers. And when you can automate the outreach to provide premium treatment to your most valuable customers and you can initiate some campaigns to try to rescue customers at risk of defecting, for example.

Magnus: 07:56 

  • So, I would say that what you want to do with the marketing automation system depends very much on what type of business you are.

Stacy: 08:04  

  • Okay. And is this something typically that companies go in and approach and with a DIY attitude, or do they hire someone to consult, help them out with this or an agency or some sort?

Magnus: 08:16

  • I think that you will probably see both. Some companies have our own internal teams doing this. Some companies just purchase the service from an agency and some companies try to cobble something together and they may or may not succeed very well in doing that.

Magnus: 08:34   

  • I think there is probably a problem in that people think that you just buy a system and then you’re all sorted. You need to know what to do with the system as well. And most marketing automation systems are empty boxes when you buy them. They don’t really do anything out of the box. And to fill them field chart logic, marketing assets like landing pages or thank you pages, or email designs, and you need to create sales funnels or automating your sales and marketing processes on a higher level before we actually look into the details and nuts and bolts of the mechanics of how to use the system.

Magnus: 09:15

  • So I think what is missing largely is an understanding on how to put the pieces together into a machinery that works, 24/7 and whatever you want it to do. Usually also you cannot just buy one marketing automation system. You probably want to add a few small specialized systems around it, like webinar platforms, video marketing platforms, support system integration, for example, to make a coherent system, but do a little bit more than the marketing automation system in the center can do it by itself.

Stacy: 09:52    

  • And it sounds so technical, but really with a lot of the things that you just said, what makes a marketing automation system actually work is content and writing and all that creativity that the company actually has.

Magnus: 10:07     

  • Yes. So I would say that content marketing is good on its own, but much better combined with marketing automation. On the other hand, marketing automation can do nothing about content. So marketing automation systems really are just software robots that can deliver the right content to the right person at the right time in a very smart way. Some people think that you can misuse or should misuse the marketing automation system to become very spammy and send a lot of emails to everyone because it’s so easy. But in my opinion, the marketing automation system should be used quite the opposite, actually to send less emails and try to be more targeted and send the right thing to the right person at the right time to appear more relevant and less spammy.

Magnus: 10:58 

  • But you’re correct. You need a lot of content to be successful with your marketing automation, and I think we can say that the marketing automation system is the engine and is runs on the content, which is the patrol.

Stacy: 11:12  

  • Okay. That makes perfect sense. And how does artificial intelligence play into marketing automation?

Magnus: 11:20 

  • In many different ways. I wrote a book about marketing with artificial intelligence last year, and in the research for that book, I identified probably 100 or 200 different ways you can use AI in marketing, from very basic, simple things that can be done in a much better way to fairly advanced enterprise-grade stuff. But I think the introduction of AI technologies like machine learning or predictive analytics is the natural next step for marketing automation. And in my opinion, pretty much every marketing automation system of relevant size will have AI technologies built in this year if they don’t already have it.

Stacy: 12:04 

  • And this goes beyond having an automated chatbox that responds to you.

Magnus: 12:11   

  • Yeah. Many people think that the chatbot is the same thing as marketing with AI, but actually chatbots is a very, very tiny little corner of what AI can do in marketing. So just taking a couple of examples that are quite easy to understand. If you have some kind of email marketing software, like a marketing automation system or even Mailchimp or something like that, typically now you send all the 100,000 emails in one go to your 100,000 recipients. But with machine learning or AI technologies, email software can learn at what time each individual recipient most likely want to email, to improve the open rate. So you don’t send 100,000 emails at the same time, but rather you send the emails at 100,000 different times instead to optimize the open rate and adapt it for each individual recipient on the email list.

Magnus: 13:05  

  • You can also use AI to optimize the cadence, how often do different people on the email list accept receiving emails, and there are many other usages as well. In e-commerce, for example, it’s quite popular to use AI in product recommendation engines or product search engines for example, or churn prediction or customer lifetime value, calculations or estimations.

Stacy: 13:33    

  • A lot.

Magnus: 13:33

  • Yeah. I think there’s surely 100 or 200 different areas where you easily can use AI in marketing to make really good benefit out of it.

Magnus: 13:43 

  • But I think that most people think AI and marketing is very advanced, you need to be an enterprise company, maybe your own data science department and you need to develop your own algorithms and software solutions. But this is not the case for most people. Rather you will just buy some standard software, like a marketing automation system or an e-commerce platform, and the supplier of that system will have a AI or machine learning built into the software and you maybe you will not even be aware of it. It will just work behind the scenes or under the bonnet.

Magnus: 14:18  

  • So for example, if you use email marketing software that has adaptive send times using machine learning, perhaps first just a checkbox where you can select whatever amount you want, personalized send times for the male shot or not, and whoever uses and checks that check box is not aware there is AI technologies under the hood, and certainly not how the algorithms work and they don’t need to either. It will be really easy to use for most people.

Stacy: 14:47 

  • I think you’re absolutely right. I think a lot of people think about AI and think that it’s just so advanced for their company that there’s no way that they could even consider doing it. But really what both AI and marketing automation and are allowing our even small company to be able to appear a lot bigger and be able to have less workers and do more things overall as far as their marketing and outreach.

Magnus: 15:13 

  • Yes. And most CRM systems today actually have something called lead scoring. So in the past, you would design a simple mathematic algorithm yourself that created a score for each person in the CRM database and basically guess how close that person was to purchase from you. And that score was calculated from online engagement, such as number of page views or whatever PDF you downloaded or how many emails you opened or something like that. And every activity added to a score.

Magnus: 15:46 

  • But now we can use a machine learning or predictive analytics to automatically calculate this lead score in range of 0-100% for each person in the database. And basically what such an algorithm does is that it looks at the behavior of our actual existing paying customers before they became customers. And then they compare the similarity of that behavior to the behavior of a new lead, and dependent on how similar the behavior of a new lead is to be actual paying customers we have before they became customers. Then we get to a percentage score in the 0-100% that rates your lead and gives us a figure on how likely it is that that person will become a customer in the short term.

Magnus: 16:33   

  • So, they will see AI integrated in all sorts of standard software and we use [inaudible 00:16:40] technology will not even be aware there are AI technologies built into to create that functionality, I think.

Stacy: 16:47   

  • That makes me want to make sure our team is actually doing more updates whenever we actually get a potential client who becomes the actual customer so that it can learn, because that would be lovely if it would help us with that.

Magnus: 17:01   

  • Yeah. What I usually do, if I have a marketing automation system with lead scoring, I normally create a few a field chart logic charts. So, for example, if some lead reaches the threshold of being 25% sales ready in the lead score, we send off a sequence of a few emails with a soft sales message, perhaps driving traffic to some little tutorial or maybe a webinar. Whenever that person do more things in the coming weeks and months, eventually they may reach 50% lead score. And then we can send them a sequence of emails through the hardware sales message, perhaps driving traffic to the web shop or driving traffic to an online booking calendar to speak to some sales guy, whenever that person do even more things on the Internet and they reach, perhaps, the lead score of 75%, then I don’t send them anything but rather contact the sales rep and have a sales rep actually make a physical phone call, because that person or that lead is now very hot since they are 75% close to purchasing.

Magnus: 18:08  

  • That can be done either by sending an automated email, not to the lead, but to the sales rep, or actually have the marketing automation system just create a to-do item and we use scheduling calendar of CRM system if there is such an integration. So you can do a lot of things also with this lead score, which can be quite interesting.

Stacy: 18:30 

  • Well, it certainly sounds like any company who does sales, which is pretty much every company out there, is massively missing out if they don’t have some software like this helping them.

Magnus: 18:43

  • Yes, I think you can use a marketing automation system much more than when most companies actually use them, and to be clear, marketing automation is not just to get new leads and new customers. It is also an excellent way of nurturing the relationships with your sales reps or distributors or existing customers for upselling or cross selling or maintaining relationships with the media or journalists or other stakeholders or influencers.

Magnus: 19:12   

  • So, I think the underutilized usage of marketing automation systems, because we forget that we can use marketing automation for other things and not just getting new leads and not for them to purchase.

Stacy: 19:26 

  • Well, even internally for educating your own employees, putting together training protocols, all of that [crosstalk 00:19:32] as well.

Magnus: 19:33

  • Yes, absolutely.

Stacy: 19:34

  • Yeah. I’m sure HR would be very happy to have marketing automation so that they can actually get things signed off and turned in and updated, and that makes it much easier too.

Magnus: 19:45

  • Yes. So in my previous company, I had distributors in 50 countries. So whenever a lead registered in a forum on our website, they had to enter their first name, their email address and their country, and because I had the country information of every new lead, I created marketing automation logic that could forward a lead’s notification email to the relevant distributor, so your lead came to the website to download a PDF and they entered they came from France, then I created flow chart logic that sends an email to the distributor in France telling him that, “This new lead, with his name and with the email address, who did this thing belongs to your territory and please call him in a few days and follow up.”

Magnus: 20:29   

  • And then you can actually create logic whereby a distributor would have to claim the lead by clicking on a contraction button somewhere, and then you can have a marketing automation logic that require the distributor to submit information after they’re calling the customer to feed into the CRM database more segmentation information. And therefore you can also manage and make sure that the distributors do what they are supposed to do.

Stacy: 20:55 

  • Yeah. I had a feeling that any listeners to have not dug in to a marketing automation software and actually seen the type of material and information that’s available about that lead who’s interacting with you would be shocked and surprised. I mean, from the IP address to the timing, to habits, to the content, how long they’re looking at content, what they’re doing with it … It’s kinda like you’re in their room sitting next to them and, and peering in on what they’re doing.

Magnus: 21:25   

  • I just launched an online course on marketing automation, and a couple of lectures in that online course touches upon how we can track leads. And so for example, we obviously track every page view, every new website session, every click on contraction buttons and so forth, including obviously all the form registrations and email opens and things like that.

Magnus: 21:48    

  • But marketing automation systems can actually detect the IP address of whoever comes to the website, and it is actually technically possible to look at from which country and city and zip code and even GPS coordinate in some cases that person is browsing from. So there are systems don’t can plot on a map, a graphical map where the email recipients are located when they open the email or where you can segment the leads and say, “I want to send this mail shot to every lead in the database that are within 40 miles radius from Cambridge in England,” for example. And then have a mail shot will be sent to those people based on the GPS coordinate, basically.

Magnus:  22:29  

  • So that this geo tracking or geo fencing. You can also track how people watch videos on your website. So you put a video clip onto your website and with the right marketing platform, we can detect, not if someone had watched the video, but also how long time they watched it, someone watched that movie more than 20 seconds, if so, we send the sequence of seven emails to that person, whoever watched less than 20 seconds receive three other emails with some other content, and whoever watched that video more than two times, we ask the sales guy to contact him.

Stacy: 23:10      

  • That’s awesome. That’s genius to be able to do, because otherwise you’re just putting it out there and you have no idea and you’re hoping that they will come, but sometimes they need a little assistance.

Magnus:  23:20    

  • Yeah. But I think people would be shocked to know how much information we have on behavior. And one quite cool thing you can do is that you can actually put a registration form inside a video. So you put a video on your website, someone comes to your website, click the play button, watches 15 or 20 seconds, and then the video pauses and shows a registration form in the video frame. So the viewer cannot continue watching the video unless they unlock first the video by submitting their contact information in a form. So that is another way of using videos as lead generators, actually.

Stacy:  24:01         

  • That’s great because right now, like with our agency, we have landing pages, and so the payment in order to see the awesome cool content that we’re creating is that email address. The landing page, you can often lose people that had the intent to want to watch a video, but then instantly before they even start seeing the video and qualifying whether it’s quality content or not, they go away. You end up losing a lot of people on landing pages. So with the video embedding with the registration, at least you capture their interest and you’ve gotten them hooked a little bit before you say, “Okay, pay up now. I need your email.”

Magnus: 24:41  

  • Yes. And if you have the right technology platform, for example, maybe it’s a video marketing platform integrated with HubSpot as the marketing automation system, then from within the marketing automation system, you can actually see heat maps on exactly how each individual leads have viewed your video. So if you have sales guys that work in the CRM system, the sales guy can actually go into the contact, watch the digital footprint and see the heat maps on how that specific person watched a certain videos before they actually call that person. So they know much more about this person and even their video behaviors are known in the form of graphical heat maps even. So it’s pretty advanced, I would say.

Stacy: 25:25  

  • It’s fantastic. I mean, even heat maps can show you just on your website where people are going and reading and clicking and looking and spending more time staring at.

Stacy: 25:36

  • So if someone has not started incorporating marketing automation into their business, what’s the first steps? What do they need to sit down and do and get ready for before they actually start doing?

Magnus: 25:49

  • I think it would be a mistake to just buy a system, probably watch your free videos that comes with the system that teaches you how to use the system. I think you should try to step up one level and get the helicopter view of things, thousand-mile view to understand what kind of sales and marketing processes do you have or which process is do you want to have in the company, and how would you then automate that?

Magnus: 26:15 

  • So you would actually map out the desired customer journey perhaps on a whiteboard or with a pen and pencil. So to creative a flow chart of how you would like to lead the lead, so to say, or hand-hold the leads towards the purchase, which touch points would you like to have? Which emails to be sent at different places in the customer journey, what should those emails promote? Should they promote some educational videos, some webinar, or just link to educational blog posts for example.

Magnus: 26:52

  • And then you can have branching logic or if-then-else logic in those flowcharts that says that, for example, if someone enrolled in a webinar when dependent on if they actually came and attended or if they didn’t attend to the webinar, then you can branch off and do different things, one-one-ones with that person or if you send them an email and dependent on if they actually open it or not, then you can send different emails, onwards depending on if they opened the first email.

Magnus: 27:21 

  • So you need to sketch out the kind of process flow or the sales funnel you want. And there’s no point really in creating the technical details inside and a particular system before you have that well understood.

Stacy: 27:36  

  • Yeah. So you really need to build out the framework and show if this happens, then that happens. If that happens, then this happens and literally draw it out so that you can see all of the different avenues to get to that final …

Magnus: 27:50 

  • Yes. So basically you need to sketch out to be a sales funnels you want and you probably want several in parallel, dependent on different activities on the website, different follow-up logic would happen. But you should also not make the mistake to think that buying the marketing automation system is enough. You really need to make sure you have enough content as well, so you may need to create a lot of blog posts or lead magnets or downloadable PDFs, like white papers and stuff like that, perhaps videos or webinars. And if you don’t have the content to go with that logic, then you still can’t really build it out.

Stacy: 28:29 

  • Okay. And really what marketing automation is is when people listening hear the words “sales funnel,” “lead funnel,” any sort of funnel, what it is is it’s grabbing people at that top of that funnel based, not magically on them just being there, but because they were attracted to be there in the first place because of some sort of content, some sort of reason why they have an engagement with your company, even if it’s just that they have an email address. And then that automation is leading them through that whole funnel in order to pull them down into becoming a higher [inaudible 00:29:07] customer or a better client that you have.

Magnus: 29:11 

  • Yes. And I think we can take the helicopter view again and say, I would say 99% of this industry or the Internet marketing industry focus on making pretty websites or driving traffic to them using search engine optimization or paid ads, Facebook ads, for example, but there is no point in getting the traffic to the website if you don’t convert that anonymous website visitors to known leads that we can nurture and follow up with.

Magnus:  29:40  

  • So marketing automation, basically is about taking care of the traffic we get to the website. Everyone else is worrying about how to get traffic to a website, but they don’t worry about creating business results. But marketing automation is about taking care of that traffic and turning it into business results.

Stacy: 29:58  

  • Okay. That’s an excellent picture.

Stacy:  30:01

  • What are some of the biggest mistakes you see people making when they are incorporating marketing automation?

Magnus: 30:10    

  • I think the number one largest mistake probably is to misunderstand or underestimate the need for content. So for example, instead of having one weekly newsletter email, you may want to send 10 parallel newsletter emails because you collect more information about the leads. You can segment them better and then you can send different nurturing emails to different groups of people or different types of customers or people in the database. So, instead of sending the same stuff to everyone, which is not really interesting to anyone, you can send several parallel newsletter emails that are much better targeted for specific groups of people in your database and that multiplies the need for email copy, for example.

Stacy: 30:55

  • Okay. Any other mistakes that you see?

Magnus: 31:00   

  • Yeah, I think a mistake is to buy a very advanced system and then put someone who is not at all interested in software to work with the system. I think most marketers really don’t like to play with flow charts and integration with external IT systems and stuff and you really need to have some kind of interest in developing flowchart logic or software logic and integrating with other systems and build larger concepts out from that, and if you’re a copywriter or buying Facebook’s ads, for example, in your current business, and it is not very likely that you really love basically doing software development even where we did some on a very high abstraction level.

Stacy: 31:45 

  • So you really either need to be this dual split personality person who loves being creative and loves being technical, right? Or you probably need to have someone on your team who is that creative force, who is that content creator who can write great copy, who can create wonderful videos or have someone that they work with do that. And then on the flip side, have that person who is more techie, more software, work in tandem with them to be a team on something like this.

Magnus: 32:16  

  • I think that most marketers would be able to use the systems, but I’m not sure if they would love exploring all the capabilities and leverage their maximum potential. But we need to understand that a marketing automation system, basically, is a software development tool, even though on a very, very high abstraction level. So they are designed to be used by marketers. It really is about creating software logic by designing flowcharts, field chart logic using drag and drop interfaces for example, and to have the understanding of how different bits and pieces can work together if you combine them in different ways.

Magnus: 32:56     

  • And that pretty much is software development even though it is on a very high abstraction level.

Stacy: 33:00 

  • Okay. Magnus, you consult with companies all over the world, everyone listening, he’s based in Sweden, he’s sitting here. If you’re watching and if you could see what I’m seeing, he’s in a very nice office setting where I’m assuming he works, you work remotely most of the time with your clients.

Magnus: 33:25 

  • Yes. Well, I do physical meetings and stuff as well, but most of my international clients are largely remotely. Yeah.

Stacy: 33:32

  • So when you’re hired on by a client, what are you looking for typically, if they already have an automation system in place, are you going in and seeing what they’re doing incorrectly and where you could fix it? Or are there certain typical things that you just know as a go-to you’re probably going to see in most cases? What’s your experience when companies are bringing you in on what you get to see that they might not realize that they’re always experiencing?

Magnus: 34:03       

  • I think it’s quite common to come in for company where they import a fairly expensive marketing automation system six or 12 months ago, and they still haven’t started to use it because they didn’t figure out or no one at the company was interested in doing that work. So they bought an expensive solution that is completely idle and pretty much unused or grossly underused at least, because they don’t have the skills or they don’t have any one interest in doing that sort of work.

Magnus: 34:33 

  • So it’s quite often to come into companies that have really nice software solutions in place that aren’t really used. They just bought it and they never deployed it.

Stacy: 34:45   

  • And so part of your job then is to teach them how it can be better used and to help them find the people within their company who are actually going to use it and put it in place and oversee it?

Magnus: 34:57

  • Yeah. Basically build out the marketing automation logic they want and implement the sales funnels they need and then maybe I can be a person they can refer to, they draw on for support or held up but initially I help them build out their initial set of marketing automation logic, teach them how to think and then they can take over or I can manage it on an ongoing basis as well. So it’s a little bit difference from different customers. Large enterprise customers, for example, tend to have their own departments with people. So in very large international corporations, I’m usually brought in as a speaker, usually now in marketing with artificial intelligence, smaller to medium size companies is more like I come in, build out a system for them, teach them how to use it and then hand it over to them if they want to, or I can just keep maintaining it for them as well.

Stacy: 35:54 

  • Then you help make things less painful.

Magnus: 35:57

  • Yes, I think so.

Stacy: 35:59 

  • That’s really your title. “I’m the one who helps people have less pain in their lives with your marketing automation system.”

Magnus: 36:05 

  • Yeah, I think so. And basically help grow their business by automating their processes such that they can scale the business without hiring more people.

Stacy: 36:15 

  • Have you had any case studies or just unbelievable stories that you’ve seen where a brand was able to, or business was able to come in and incorporate marketing automation and it really did change the day for them?

Magnus: 36:31  

  • Yes. It has happened and particularly small companies with a very international audience benefit a lot from marketing automation because you can then give kind of a personal outreach to each individual customer or potential customer even though your country [inaudible 00:36:49] to fly to them in different countries. I think also that companies who have a lot to say about the products are a better fit because marketing automation, is about nurturing the potential customers over a long period of time, weeks and months. And if your products are very, it makes no sense to talk about the product for a long time because it’s too simple or too cheap product, then it’s really hard to do a lot. But, if you have complex products, B2B companies for example with complex products, they have a lot of things to say or you need to educate the customer base then marketing automation is perfect match, I think.

Stacy: 37:29  

  • That’s awesome. And do you think that this is something that’s better to do DIY or to get someone like you or an agency to help them?

Magnus: 37:36 

  • I think it depends a little bit on your previous skills. I think it is a very good idea to bring in someone who knows how this works at least to hand-hold you while you set the system up and get it started. And then companies can maintain it on words if I like, but I have seen quite a lot of examples where someone without the right background cobbled together something and usually it ends up a failed project or they largely underutilized what the system can do. They didn’t get the business growth for the scalability, they didn’t get the benefits that was the reason for the investment in the system in the first place.

Magnus: 38:14  

  • So I think it is a good idea to get help at least to have the initial setup done. And when if you like, you can take over and maintain it yourself. People don’t know what we don’t know, let’s say.

Stacy: 38:27   

  • Well, I think with marketing automation there’s more unknown than known for most of us.

Stacy: 38:33

  • Where is this going? What is the future? What are we going to see? And we know right now you can use it for sales, you can use it for customer nurturing, you can use it for your own team employees with as an HR tool and an internal learning tool, you can use it for webinars, you can use it for all these different things. But what’s the future?

Magnus: 38:52    

  • I think the future lies in AI or AI technologies like machine learning and predictive analytics. So with AI technologies, we can create autonomous marketing systems that can analyze data and make independent decisions. So we can step away from humans actually controlling what is happening and AI robots will make informed decisions on what to do with each lead automatically. We will create even more autonomous marketing systems that work independently without a lot of human intervention. Most of the marketing touch points will actually be initiated by AI algorithms rather than human beings.

Stacy: 39:40

  • And I think I was reading that there’s mumblings that content marketing will kind of go away to the side and not be as much of an emphasis as far as continuing to nurture, and it will rely more on AI at a higher level. Is that true?

Magnus: 40:01 

  • I think you need content marketing as a means of distributing your trustworthiness or educational content, but AI can be used in many different areas of content marketing. So there are many AI tools that can help with content strategy, search engine optimization efforts, content curation, even automatic content creation, robot journalism for example, where we can auto generate email copy for example, or email subject lines or are tools that can auto generate social media posts now and content repurposing tools. There are tools that can take one blog post from a competitor and it repurposes it into another blog posts that is written in a different way that pretty much says the same thing, and you can publish that as your own. I’m not sure how that works in the corporate law.

Magnus: 40:51 

  • But there are so many AI tools. For example, there’s a really nice tool called MarketMuse from a company out of Boston that can analyze a blog post you write and it can then harvest information from our blog posts on the same topic that ranks really well on Google, and then it can tell you how to rewrite your article to match those patterns that the top performers on Google on that topic have. So you can get AI assistance in how to write your blog posts to hopefully perform much better than they currently do.

Stacy: 41:28 

  • That’s phenomenal. And it also even, if you’re doing a podcast like this or if you are wanting to dictate instead of writing, I mean there’s now AI tools that will take whatever you say and put it down in writing for you.

Magnus: 41:47   

  • Yes. I think the technology goes even further. Probably the most surprising use of AI in marketing, I found, during research for my book on marketing with AI is an AI tool called Gweek Speech, if I remember correct, and that is an AI based tool that analyzes the performance of public speeches, and they find the attributes of good speeches and they can give direction to public speakers on how they should improve their own speeches to become better speakers. And that, to me, is quite far out, actually. It’s very unexpected, but even in such usages you will find AI today to improve public speeches, speaking performances.

Stacy: 42:35  

  • That’s amazing. Yeah. So we literally are just going to be this speaker box that is being controlled by another intelligence that’s telling us how to perform.

Magnus: 42:47

  • Yeah. And apparently this AI tool can rate or score the performance of individual speeches. So, perhaps in the future companies who hires public speakers, will use the rating from such AI tools to decide how much we want to pay for different speakers.

Stacy: 43:08   

  • That is fantastic. So do you have any last bits of advice that you want to share about marketing automation and AI and what brands and agencies and all of those listening should actually be thinking about right now?

Magnus:  43:25 

  • I think it’s not so much about what tool you buy, it’s more about understanding the pros and cons of different tools and choosing a tool that matches your needs. So there are marketing automation tools on the market for $10 a month and upward, and some of them are quite powerful for that money. Usually we price for marketing automation systems scale with the amount of contacts in the database. So even quite advanced marketing automation systems can be a fairly cheap if you don’t have too many contacts in the database. But you need to understand that will be a lot of content production related to introducing marketing automation.

Stacy:  44:00  

  • Right. A lot of writing or a lot of videos or a lot of infographics or any of that.

Magnus: 44:11 

  • Email copy, yeah. Blog posts, for example. Yup.

Stacy: 44:15 

  • Well, for all of our listeners, Magnus has put together, and I took a look at it, a very detailed online class so that you can learn how to use marketing automation for yourself. Can you, Magnus, share a little bit more about that, where people can find it?

Magnus: 44:31   

  • Yes. So my online course is called Marketing Automation Made Easy, and it’s an online course that you can consume at your own pace and you will find it if you go to my website, unemyr.com under courses in the top menu.

Stacy: 44:49

  • Awesome. And in our show notes, we will have all that spelling for everyone as well so that they can be directed there, not a problem. And then, anything else you want to share with us today?

Magnus: 45:01 

  • Yeah. I have a PDF file that can be downloaded. It’s called the Marketing Automation Success formula and it provides the five or six most important pieces of advice you should be aware of and starting a marketing automation project. So it’s Marketing Automation Success Formula. It can be downloaded on unemyr.com/formula.

Stacy:  45:23   

  • Fantastic. And then that is U-N-E-M-Y-R.com, correct?

Magnus: 45:29 

  • Yes.

Stacy: 45:29  

  • Perfect. And do you want to share an email or anything else for people to reach out to you?

Magnus: 45:34   

Stacy: 45:41  

  • Perfect. Well, Magnus, thank you so much for being on today. I know that I want to go back and rip apart our entire marketing automation system right now and see what we’re doing right and what we’re doing wrong. So you have definitely gotten me moving on that, and we all really appreciate your time.

Magnus: 45:57    

  • Thanks for inviting me.



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