EP382: The Art of Designing a Strong Brand Website With Jarrod Lopiccolo | Noble

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Stacy Jones: Welcome to marketing mistakes and how to avoid them. I’m Stacey Jones and I’m so happy to be here with you all today. And I want to give a very warm welcome to Jarrod Lepicolo. Jarrod is the founder and CEO of Noble, a creative digital performance marketing agency he launched with his wife two decades ago, which has since blossomed into an international enterprise. His global perspective, stemming from managing offices in Reno and Bristol, UK, has fostered connections worldwide. Jarrod ‘s unique approach to digital marketing is influenced by his architectural background, allowing noble to craft virtual experiences that mirror the best of the real world. His clientele includes prestigious travel brands like Visit Lake Tahoe, Santa Monica, the islands of Tahiti, and digital and tech brands like Autodesk, Niantic, Adobe, Disney and Google.

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Stacy Jones: Jarrod has served in various capacities on numerous boards and is a sought after speaker at esteemed venues like Destination International’s annual convention, Social media Week, Bristol and e tourism. His career achievements include being named SBA’s Small Business Persons of the year and receiving the in Business Las Vegas Entrepreneur Award, among others. Today, Jarrod and I are going to be chatting about the strength and value of building the right website for your brand. We’ll learn what works from Jarrod’s perspective, what should be avoided, and how some businesses miss the mark. Jarrod, welcome. So happy to have you here today.

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Jarrod: Thank you, Stacey. I want to meet this guy Jarrod. He sounds know it’s always flattering when you get your bio read, so thank you.

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Stacy Jones: I heard he’s a pretty amazing guy.

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Jarrod: I did too.

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Stacy Jones: Member of yours?

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Jarrod: Yes, and my wife seems to think that too, so that’s good.

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Stacy Jones: Isn’t that awesome? Isn’t it lovely having spouses who support and do all the hoopla and make our days? It’s nice.

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Jarrod: Oh, it’s great.

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Stacy Jones: What I’d love to do is start off chatting about how did you get here today? I just said that you’ve been in this business for over two decades. You started out as a solopreneur. You launched this into not just a successful business here in the United States, but also one in Bristol, United Kingdom. So what happened?

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Jarrod: Yeah, and actually, just one slight correction, is that actually my wife and I, we both started the business together. And how we started, we actually met at our very last year of university. And at the time I was working towards being one of the youngest architects in the United States. I think if I were to have continued down that path and received my architectural license, I would have been like the youngest in 39. And I think that just goes to show, like, I was this really young, kind of tons of energy, tons of passion, nothing’s impossible kind of mindset. And when I met Susan, she was very much of the same mindset, right? She was working in copywriting while going to school in Las Vegas with me.

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Jarrod: She was working at R R Partners, and R R Partners is a large pr agency that when she was working on the campaign of what happens in Vegas stays in. So we both were just this really know, punchy, fun, passionate individuals. And we got teamed up on a project in this technical writing class, and it was really about how do you market, or how do you show the value of a company? And we decided to use website as a medium to do that. And we thought, well, this is great, this idea of, like, instead of building physical architecture, we’re building virtual architecture. And for season, instead of building sort of taglines and slogans and campaigns, she’s writing really thoughtful content describing companies and all there is about those companies. We started noble with this idea that we’re two young kids coming out of college.

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Jarrod: The world’s our oyster. Back in the early 2000s, websites, we had to convince people that websites are not going away and that Internet is here to stay. But we wanted to really, when we saw that we’re both world travelers, and I used to live in Italy, she used to live in Chile. And we both felt know, one of the reasons why we have so much pain in the world is that there’s just not enough communication and there’s not enough connective tissue and meaningful connections within humans. And we thought, well, aspirationally, we’re young. What if we help build the Internet that helps tie and connect people together?

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Jarrod: And so that kind of really helped us, gave us a vision and a mission for the company of saying, let’s be a conscious, capitalistic company where we’re here for profits, we’re here to grow, and to be a successful company with growth mindset. But how do we do this where everyone wins? And that’s one of the reasons why we created the name noble, was we thought, well, we need something, a name that will help guide us through all experiences. So if we fall off our trail, we ask ourselves, what’s the noble thing to do? And we get back on. And that’s just been really kind of the core principle is, let’s bring humans together, let’s build meaningful connections, and let’s do that through the means of digital marketing.

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Stacy Jones: That’s awesome. And so you and your wife have literally created a business that enables you to travel a little bit.

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Jarrod: Yes.

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Stacy Jones: As well. Which is fantastic. I know this because I have also created a business where it allows me to pop all over the.

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Jarrod: Know. It’s. So we started out and we started working with some of the bigger brands out of the Bay Area, the Google’s, you mentioned right in the bio. And it was just almost like a big logo land grab. Like, let’s just grab all the logos we can. It shows that we’ve created this really successful business. And so there was a huge value placed on that as opposed to working with the right clients. Right. And then what we found was as we started to work in the travel and tourism space, these clients really, they valued selling experiences and the impact of those experiences that you create long life memories and relationships and bonds that define us as humans. And so we thought this is a really good industry or vertical to be in. We loved the idea of working in the travel and tourism space.

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Jarrod: One, of course they’re good people, and two, you’re selling not widgets that are going to maybe end up in landfills or those kinds of things, but you’re actually selling experiences and you’re marketing destinations and their assets that they have in these destinations. But of course we get to visit those. And so what’s great is whenever we pick up a client, like we landed the islands of Tahiti, we go there and we visit, we scuba dive and we sample their product, if you will, and then that gives us a true authentic experience with that. So when we storytell about it or we write content or we build infrastructure or marketing campaigns, it’s really coming from a place of knowledge and authority and experience than it is if we didn’t have those experiences. And that allowed us then, of course, to expand into the UK.

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Jarrod: We had a lot of clients that were international and we thought, gosh, it’s really hard to service some of these clients in Europe or in EMEA or APAC with a Pacific standard west coast time frame. And so we opened an office in the Bristol, UK, which is really right at that center point of the time. So now we’re servicing at least 16 hours of the day, covering a big portion of the globe. And then of course, we get to travel. We get to travel a lot to see our office, meet culture, new team members, new clients, speaking engagements, form new partnerships. And so yeah, we’ve really built into the fabric of our company this idea of travel and experiencing new cultures and new people.

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Stacy Jones: It seems travel and tech are some of your two go tos. Like all things digital and all things travel. They’re very different in a lot of ways, but it makes sense what you’re saying. And what is your favorite island in Tahiti?

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Jarrod: Well, it’s say, I would say morea is probably my favorite. It’s a mix between romantic and family, whereas if you do like Bora, it’s a very romantic. Right. Your kids are going to get bored there. And if you just.

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Stacy Jones: Great scuba diving manneres there, trust me.

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Jarrod: And I love it. And there’s ficavara. Yes. Love that they have the shark shelf that they have there. But in terms of accessibility and price point and just full activities, I would say, yeah. Maria is probably our family’s favorite pick. We were just there in February this year and rented. Instead of doing the over the water bungalows, which we’ve done a few times, we rented an actual just Vrbo. Well, it’s a guest house, but it was through guest house services, and right on the water, we had stand up paddle boards and, of course, our clients there. So we got to meet with them, have lunches and dinners, and then have a good time on enjoying ourselves.

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Stacy Jones: That’s awesome. I had to ask. Tahiti is one of my favorite countries.

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Jarrod: Yeah. It is something that you don’t think about how large it is, but it spans 118 islands, and it’s almost the size of Russia in terms of the islands chain itself. But you don’t think of it. You think of it almost like Hawaii, where it’s this literally isolated area, but sometimes it takes three or 4 hours of flight time just to get to one of the. So. But, yeah, we love it. It’s still preserved. Right. I have family in Hawaii, so I can say this, but it’s not a fake luau where they’re pulled pork out of the kitchen. They’re actually burying the pigs. They have the traditions, and they’re maintaining those. And I think that authenticity is also stuff what we seek when we like to travel and to tell these stories for others.

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Stacy Jones: I 100% agree with that. And so when you’re working with these different brands, you have your tourism, you have your kind of tech.

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Jarrod: Yes.

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Stacy Jones: Is it the same approach, or is it different when you’re looking at architecting a whole website design?

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Jarrod: It’s a great question. I would say ten years ago, we would see these people as different people, and nowadays we don’t. Right. The same people that are working for a b two b fintech company. They’re also on Facebook. Right. And they’re also on Instagram. Maybe they’re not all the way yet on TikTok, but they’re in these social platforms. And I think we would always say, well, no, the b two b people only exist on LinkedIn and the b to C people, which is maybe travel and tourism. They only exist on Instagram and yelps and all these others. But the reality is that these are the same people. Now, the difference between the two is really about the buyers committee, right? When you’re in a b, two b company, you have a big buyer’s committee.

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Jarrod: There’s usually six or seven people that you have to address all of their different problems with solutions, and you match those up and you’ve got to hit them at different points. They have a longer lead time in terms of closing that piece of business. So the website is going to act very differently for a b to b company. They’re going to need case studies, they’re going to need proof points, they’re going to need reviews and certifications and all these others. And then you think of the b to c, you’ve got a smaller buyer committee. You got a one or two person in a household that’s usually buying a vacation or buying an experience. Yes, they want some case studies, but they’re more looking for activities and they want videos showing the sort of the experience that people have had.

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Jarrod: But there are the same people, right? The same woman that works at a b, two b company. During the day, she’s going to come home and she’s going to surf the web and she’s going to look for that travel experience that she wants to take her family on. And so you have to appeal to both. You have to treat them as the same person, but with different lenses depending on do they have their work clothes on for today, or do they have their beep shorts on in the evening or on the weekends?

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Stacy Jones: And so when you’re doing this, since everyone is still just human and is a purchaser and buyer, what are some of the common things that all of these humans don’t like in websites?

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Jarrod: Yeah, it’s interesting that one of the things we try to break down is that we like to think about this idea of personally relevant experiences, right. And basically getting as close as possible to that Persona. And so it’s hard, people feel generalized. And so you think, oh, well, maybe there’s like four different activities, and so therefore, there’s only four different types of people, but in reality, there’s hundreds of different types of people. And in fact, if you’re going to do a survey to get to what we call, like, statistical significance of 95% or greater, you need to survey 384 people. So that means you need that much of a sample site. There’s that many different people and needs and where they’re at in the buyer’s journey.

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Jarrod: And so what’s, I think, really important and where people get frustrated is when they land on a website and they feel like that they’re lost. Right? Maybe you don’t have the same top entry points for each one and they can’t drill in fast enough to maybe find that shark wall scuba diving trip. And so I think there’s this need for either self identification or self selection that a lot of these websites are missing in that personalized experience. And so I think there’s the evolution that we’re going to start to see with websites is more personalization, more first party data. So you’re providing these sites with things of what are your interests? Have you been to, for instance, Tahiti before? Have you purchased this kind of product before?

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Jarrod: And so we learn a little bit more about the person that’s visiting this website and then we can curate and customize a very frictionless experience for them to get to effectively as fast as possible to what they’re looking for. And then, of course, to those that don’t know, and they’re just in this sort of exploration phase, you want to give them the ability to explore and learn and educate and maybe find interest that maybe they never knew about or whatnot. But I think that’s probably the biggest issue that I see is these websites. They create a lot of friction right off the bat. They’re not built well with understanding the different personas or the buyer’s journeys. And therefore, you just get landed with just so much information and you put all the effort on the person to have to find it.

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Jarrod: And that’s when you’ll typically see, like high bounce rates, people ejecting quickly those things, even if the site had the information, but it just wasn’t organized appropriately.

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Stacy Jones: And so what else do people do wrong?

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Jarrod: Yeah, well, I think when I think about one of the, if you call it like a systemic issue, is that if you think about websites, they’re a very hardened, curated, cured marketing infrastructure asset. Right? Whereas if you think about emerging marketing channels, I mentioned TikTok because that’s one of the more emerging ones that’s stabilized enough for brands to invest into. But it’s also a little wild west still in that. So what’s happened is you’ve got a lot of infrastructure, you’ve got a lot of process to build a website. And I think clients without, if they haven’t gone through a website rebuild process before. I don’t think they value the amount of effort that needs to go into it. Right.

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Stacy Jones: So much effort. Ours is on pause right now because I got overwhelmed. It is so much work depending on who you’re working with and if you’re coming in ready, if you know what your copy is and you know what your images are, it’s a full time job.

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Jarrod: Well, and if you think about for us, we have to sell this to a client, the last thing we want to do is say, by the way, for the next nine months you’re going to dedicate you and the three or four of your team members 100% to this initiative. You’re going to pull your hair out, you’re going to be happy when it’s done, but you’re not going to want to recommend anyone to go through this process because it’s just such a hard, heavy lift and the requirements of a website and it’s still literally one of the number one marketing assets you can possibly invest into. And I don’t believe it’s going away anytime soon.

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Jarrod: Even with AI content creation, what Google is going to do with the know all those things, you still need a website that showcases all of your capabilities, sells your products, sells your experiences, has proof points, has landing pages that are customized to receive inbound paid media. So you just got all this complexity. Now we have security, not that we haven’t had security, but we have GDPR compliance, we have AdA compliancy, we have California Consumer Privacy act. So you’ve got all of these different security and compliance initiatives that are in place which are for a good reason, but you have to have that. You’ve got content marketers, you got ux UI designers, you got programmers, you just have this entire fleet of people in orchestration to make this thing happen.

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Stacy Jones: And there’s so many differences, like if people are, you know, we did our website a decade ago or longer even. It’s not the same game now at all, is.

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Jarrod: Know when you look at some of the algorithm changes that Google’s launching, one of the most recent ones is they call it Eat and it’s Eeat and it stands for experience. So you’re providing a great experience. Are you an expert in this field? Are you viewed as an expertise? Do you have authority? Is there trustworthiness? So you’ve got all these different changes that are happening that wasn’t on us ten years ago and mobile now is the higher consuming device that’s out there. So you got to make sure that everything loads very quickly, that you have optimized imagery, you have optimized servers, you have what’s called cdns, content delivery networks that are sending content at the same time your servers are responding. I mean, there’s just so much complexity.

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Jarrod: And I think the big challenge that I find is that, say, ten years ago we built a website for 250,000. Well, every year we’re investing another 7000, 500,000 for optimization updates, security patches, new feature enhancements. So you do this for ten years and you’re over a million dollar investment, but the client still wants to only pay 250 or 350. But you’re like, wait a second, there’s so much more complexity than there ever was. And while there’s automation, there’s not as much automation as one would expect to have in the space. And so there’s a squeeze that’s happening right now around clients and what they want to invest into and the effort that it takes to build. And you’re seeing in other industries that are okay with it, like home building is very expensive nowadays.

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Jarrod: It hasn’t gotten cheaper, even though we’re getting better at it, and materials are getting lighter and simpler, and we have all those things. So it’s an interesting moment in time. And what will likely happen is more automation is going to come because clients will ultimately decide if they’re willing to pay that market value or not. And if they’re not going to, then you’ll naturally see more automation start to come our way, which is exciting. I love that stuff on the websites.

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Stacy Jones: That you’re building now with the whole world of AI, there’s so much you can do now. You can literally have your entire content library. If you’re a good person, have created content and have it there, and have any question under the sun answered. You can have chat bots that are now super advanced chat bots. What are you seeing as far as cool things and do hickeys that you could add on?

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Jarrod: Well, the whole sort of generative AI movement that we’ve all been experiencing for the last year, it’s in me, in my opinion, is quite exciting because it’s allowed us to give more creativity to more people, right? And some would say that it actually is removing creativity. But in reality, we spend a lot of time creating things using tools, and we have this vision or this expression that we want, but we sometimes get caught in the tools themselves. And so these generative AI tools are allowing to take the time that we would normally take to generate an image or say, for instance, an outline or 20 different taglines and things like that.

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Jarrod: It allows us to shorten that time frame, which then gives more time to be more strategic and more time to be more creative and to brainstorm more and to bounce more ideas off of other people and to put things in front of them much quicker. And so I’m excited about that. And when you think about imagery, a lot of us have blogs on our websites and we’re talking about thought leadership or we’re talking about our products in some way or another, you always have to usually have a hero image into that blog. And maybe there’s a few island images that go throughout. So it kind of breaks up the monotony of text and such. You can easily use midjourney or dolly or some of these other generative tools and give it your style that you want.

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Jarrod: So now you can own your own specific style and be generating images in seconds versus hours or sometimes days if you were to go into illustration and do things in Adobe illustrator and things like that. So I love that we’ve taken the time factor and we’ve shortened it down and we’ve increased the level of creativity that each one of us has really inside of us. And we’ve always said that you don’t have to be considered a creative to be creative. Everyone has an ability to be creative, and I think these tools are just unlocking the potential in all of us.

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Stacy Jones: I think it’s interesting because we know content marketing works. We know that for an inbound, the whole reason to have a website is for inbound. It’s the monster of all inbound. And everything else stems off of that, basically.

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Jarrod: Yes, that’s right.

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Stacy Jones: And so knowing that you have a good platform and knowing that you can actually, now anyone can create content with these tools, it doesn’t take long. And there’s still an opportunity. Like, we started writing our blogs back in 2012. We have over close to 2000 blogs at this point.

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Jarrod: Nice. It’s impressive.

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Stacy Jones: So it’s a lot of content and it enabled us to get first page listing and to keep it still to this day where we don’t have to pay for Google Adwords and we don’t have to do a lot because we’re just organically there. And there’s other agencies who probably started that long ago or other brands and they’re in a good position. But for those brands that are now, like, I don’t even know where to start, there are such awesome tools that are going to be able to be put into place where anyone can create that inbound.

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Jarrod: Yeah. I think at the end of the day, you still need to have. What value are you providing? Right. And I think that’s because you can create content so quickly. That’s it. That’s right. Yeah. I was at this agency summit in Edinburgh, Scotland, about six weeks ago, and one of the agency founders was saying, yeah, I was experimenting, and we generated over 200,000 pieces of content and we launched it, and we saw a 700% increase in day one, and it went to, like, 25,000% increase over the next couple of weeks. And my first question was, well, what did your conversions look like? And the conversions stayed the exact same. And so what that really meant was you just put in a bunch of shit out in the Internet that nobody really wants to read.

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Jarrod: But Google is catching up, so it’s needing to index it. But eventually that won’t work, because what will happen is Google will see that nobody’s engaging with that content, and then it’ll deprioritize it. So I think you always have to, with these tools and the fact that you can accelerate the amount of creativity you can bring to the table and the content you can produce and the output, I think you still need to have a position of strength. Like, what is it you’re talking about? If you’re a chef, maybe you want to talk about these very specific areas that you are an authority on, but don’t cover every single thing in the world about food, because now you’re a generalist and you’re not going to rank and you’re not going to have any sort of authority at that moment.

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Jarrod: And so I think there’s that element of still finding a unique angle, a still way to storytell. But then you do that first. Right. So it’s almost like, it’s like a business. You need a vision and a mission, and then all the other activities come from it. So if you’re going to write content, you’re going to put content out there, have a position that you want to own and defend, and then use these tools to help accelerate your position around that.

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Stacy Jones: Absolutely. And so with all of that content, that’s going to be created, a lot of it being garbage.

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Jarrod: Yes.

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Stacy Jones: How can people better position their website to be a destination versus a trap of crap?

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Jarrod: Yeah, well, I think I’m laughing now because hopefully no one’s offended out there, but I think that 20 years ago, you could be a generalist almost in a way. And I think more than ever today, I think we need to think about being an inch wide and a mile deep versus a mile wide and an inch deep because there is so many humans. Right. We’re at almost 8 billion or I think we’re at 8 billion now. And the fact that we have all these tools and so many people now are in marketing and they’re creating content and they’re creating experiences out there, I think you need to still be an authority on something. So if you’re going to have a website, don’t try to be everything to everyone. You don’t need to. Right. And I think it’s a survival tactic to do that.

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Jarrod: Of course we sell that. Of course we do that. I think those days are going away. I think the idea of more specialty and focused and expertise is what we’re going to start to see. I think we’re going to start to see it in everything. Doctors, instead of just general practitioners, you’re going to have a lot more specialists. And I think that we have to take that same approach is like, we can’t be everything to everyone. Instead, let’s be a concentrated, valuable resource for a select audience or a select type of audiences, as opposed to everything to everyone model.

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Stacy Jones: And then so with that everyone for everyone not being everyone for everyone model. Everything to everyone model. I’ll get this eventually, right. So I think a lot of brands and agencies, because it applies to both in this case and even more so in many cases to agencies, because they have a tendency to be like, we do websites, we do digital marketing, we do social media, we do influencer marketing, we do pr, we do everything that you could possibly ever need under the sun, and there’s only five of us.

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Jarrod: Yes.

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Stacy Jones: So with that positioning, is there a framework on a website that is kind of like your go to when you are working on it, where you’re establishing your value proposition, you’re establishing, is it different now? And I know an ecommerce brand is going to be very different than an agency brand or a travel brand or a tech brand, but is there a status quo right now or a generality of how when you’re designing those designs end up looking right now, are they long pages? Are they deep pages that go wide? Are they super comprehensive?

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Jarrod: Yeah, I think what it comes down to, it truly is, it comes down to knowing the product or service or experience that you’re selling and really aligning those to those target audiences. Yes. While you could sell something to everyone, I would say the general rule of thumb is to really try to capture what you would consider to be 70, 75% of those target audiences. Because what happens is you start to break down and you start getting these micro audiences, but then the effort, you start to get this diminishing return on investment, you start to build all this content for only 1%. Now, mind you, if you’re Amazon, that 1% represents millions and millions of dollars.

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Jarrod: But for professional services, businesses, or even some small b to B’s or small destinations and things like that, I would say focus on that 70 75% and then really build and cater towards those. Sometimes if it’s very much like a first time purchase, you’re going to need a lot more education. You’re going to need articles, you’re going to need what we call topic clustering. So you’re going to have one main topic and you’re going to have all these different topics that build authority around that. Because really they’re in this education process. But if they’re in the I’m ready to buy process, then you don’t need these long form pages and all these subsidiary articles and content. You need to get right to proof points, you need to get right to five star reviews and testimonials.

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Jarrod: And you’re checking all the different boxes so that purchase is as frictionless as possible. So that would be my recommendation is really start with who’s your target audience, how are they grouped? Maybe there’s ten, maybe there’s five. But make sure you’re representing at least 75% of your buyers and then build for them. And then once you’ve built for them, then I think you can start to look at, okay, let’s look at the next 75% to 85% because maybe there’s some smaller groups but big enough for us to invest into marketing for them. Then you start putting. But if we try to capture everyone in all, you’ll lose that concentrated 75%. It’ll start to dilute and then those efforts start to go sort of out the door.

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Jarrod: But it’s funny, it reminded me when you were asking the question when we started our office in the UK, you can really start an office anywhere and you have like three things to choose from. You have geography, you have service, and you have vertical. And I would say you should try to pick one when you’re starting a company or you’re really think of a geography. Maybe you want to hit with a single line service or with a single line vertical, or think of only a vertical and your geography less. But I would say whenever you’re starting something, really try to start with one of those as a filter, as a point of focus, and then you can add a second and a third.

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Jarrod: But if you try to again, be everything to everyone, like, oh, yeah, we service all verticals in all geos and we provide all services. Again, you’re back to this vanilla and you’re not differentiating yourself against competitors at this point. And you get lost. You get lost in the sauce. You start chasing money for bills as opposed to making an impact and closing that gap from demand to supply.

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Stacy Jones: And so chair, you obviously know a lot about websites and development and website architecture. How can our listeners find you? Where should they go?

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Jarrod: Great, I think when you think about, so I’m in the mode right now of after 20 years in business, we’ve learned a lot. I still have a lot more to learn, but it’s this pay it forward model. So I’m generating a lot of thought leadership. I’m telling people our stories so that they can learn as well and in that sort of, again, that pay it forward model. So I’m on LinkedIn. I would love more followers. I’d love for you to check out my LinkedIn is Jarrod Lopiccolo. It’s J-A-R-R-O-D-L-O-P-I-C-C-O-L-O. Follow me there. Direct message me. I love having conversations with anyone and everyone, as long as it’s a conversation. It’s tough when you get on a call and it’s masked and then it’s a sale, and then you feel obligated. Hold the sale for like the third conversation. Let’s just talk.

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Jarrod: You could also go to our [email protected], that’s noblestudios.com. Take a look at our case studies. Read some of the thought leadership that we’re putting out there. We’re really passionate about, again, creating meaningful connections, providing relevant experiences for our clients and their customers. But take a look at this stuff we’re doing. We’re winning some great awards right now. We’re feeling really confident going into 2024. So any and all interactions and connections, I welcome. And yeah, this has been a really great day. So I really appreciate it, Stacy.

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Stacy Jones: So as we lead out of this, yeah, if you had to give one big piece of advice as a parting gift to our listeners, what would it be?

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Jarrod: So it’s funny. I’m going to move away from marketing and I’m going to say, just being an entrepreneur, and I mentioned this idea of pay it forward, I always tell people that if you ask for money, you’re often going to get advice, right? And that’s not what people want. But if you ask for advice, you’ll oftentimes find money in the sense of opportunities. And so I just lead my life with curiosity, with this notion that I can learn something from anyone that any person I know carries wisdom. So my advice would be go out there and seek advice, right. And, and be vulnerable. And, and by being vulnerable, you create humility and you experience life a little bit richer and you’ll find that opportunities present themselves when you come in with that sort of humble attitude. So seek advice and you’ll oftentimes find opportunities.

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Stacy Jones: Well, Jarrod, thank you very much for joining today. I think you have certainly found a lot of opportunities. I love the fact that you’ve combined a lot of your passions of photography and travel into a business that you can profit and explore from. Congratulations on all of your successes.

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Jarrod: Well, thank you for having me. I feel truly blessed and thankful and I’m looking forward to getting into next year and all the different stuff we can do. So love to come back again if ever you wanted to talk about other topics and otherwise. A real pleasure. And really thank you for letting me share some of our stories, of course.

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Stacy Jones: And to all of our listeners today on marking mistakes and how to avoid them. Thank you for tuning in to another episode. I look forward to chatting with you this next week. And until then, if by any chance outside of websites or maybe you have a website and you’re like, oh, I’d love to have really cool content to put on this website, you can reach out to my agency, Hollywood branded. We do product placements, celebrity endorsements, influencer marketing and we can help you out. So until then, have a great one. Bye.