EP363: Unlocking the Power of Copywriting and Email Marketing: Recipes for Driving Results With Luke Charlton | LukeCharlton.com

Stacy Jones:

welcome to marketing mistakes and how to avoid them. I’m Stacey Jones, and I’m so happy to be here with you all today, and I want to give a very warm welcome to Luke Charlton. Luke is the founder of Luke charlton.com, and is an advertising specialist for coaches dedicated to empowering others to acquire high paying clients through strategic paid advertising with over years of marketing experience. Lucas helped coaches grow their businesses with paid advertising, and unveiled the secret of attracting numerous clients with just a  min email. Luke’s guidance has been been successful for over , coaches, earning him recognition, and steamed publications like six-figure coaching in collaborations with renowned at agencies. having invested million in advertising and generated over , having invested. So fix this Angie, having invested million in advertising and generating over million in sales. Luke’s expertise and copywriting and marketing, has benefited industry. Experts like Bob Proctor, Mike Dillard, Neil Patel, and many more, with his proven methods and many success stories, look as an invaluable resource for individuals seeking unparalleled growth in the online business landscape. Today. Luc and I are going to be chatting about how to drive better results with paid advertising. We’ll learn what works from this perspective, what should be avoided, and how some businesses miss the mark. Luke, welcome, so happy to have you there today.

Luke Charlton:
No, no, it starts in in the public service in this. So I’m from Canberra. I don’t live there any more cameras, the capital of Australia, and it’s kind of like Washington, DC. Where it’s just like a government town, and everyone will work government jobs. And that’s what I did. I was with the Afp, which is like, basically the the FBI of Australia is the Afp. So I was working with them in computer stuff. And I, that was, I left there exactly years ago to this month, exactly years ago. So I’ve been. I’ve been a job free for years, which is pretty cool. But yeah, I just you know, I I would go, and a bunch of different kind of full time jobs in the first months would be great. And then after that it became very monotonous, and I at the time I didn’t realize why. Looking back, I knew it was because I just the growth stop right? And then the only way to move up in the company or not company the the the government is basically if someone dies, or if someone retires. So you you’re basically waiting like a decade to move up in any position. And so I thought, you know, this is not for me, and I I quit. I moved to London this years ago now, and to become a coach. and I failed miserably first year, and had to come back to Australia because I ran out of money in a lot of debt. basically my marketing strategy then, because I didn’t know anything about business was just like. Throw a spaghetti on the wall and and see what’s see what’s stuck and and nothing stuck. So I am. Web came back home in a lot of debt and that kind of. I mean to take a cop sets back, and you like what I was doing and just doing a bunch of different things was not working. Let me figure out what other successful coaches and entrepreneurs have done to be successful, and that’s what led me to more. The fundamentals of business. I realized what I was doing in the beginning that was not great, was just chasing bright, shiny objects which we do a lot of the time as coaches or entrepreneurs. We’re just like, look at the latest like a AI is the big thing. Now, right? Use AI to grow your business and and that’s what I was doing. I realized what most of the successful people were doing. I had had done in the past was they focus on the boring stuff that everyone kind of knows you should be doing. But that really do it, or you just kinda half pass it, which is like Step One is to know you. I mean, we can go through these. But you know no, your market, really. Well, you know. Pick a niche. No, your market, and that’s the first step before you even think about your product. See, most of us like we have a great program or a great product. And we we try and talk about all the features and stuff and things that that’s gonna be what draws people in. But it’s it’s not. It’s like what the market actually wants. So you have to learn the market. And we have to learn how our product figure program fits in with that market. So anyway, the boring fundamentals like research and learning copywriting. And but I I love copywriting. So I I went on, that that’s what I mean to copywriting. And I realized I had a kind of a natural talent for that. And then I applied that to to advertising because I had the organic strategies. That’s one of my big things from London is I hated. I was pounding the literally pounding the pavement towards the end of my time they like knocking on restaurant doors to try and sell like mobile apps, because I just hadn’t.

Stacy Jones:
Oh, and and I was a coach right now. I’m going trying to like that was, and I was in trying to do so. Mlm, pain patches. I got so desperate. I was just trying to all these different things to make money.

Luke Charlton: Yeah, yeah, actually have some in the cupboard. Still, here.

Stacy Jones:
they might work really well.

Luke Charlton:
they apparently are quite amazing. I can sell you some if you want So, anyway, the journey was going back to the fundamentals, learning those. I studied those for years like copyrighting fundamentals, marketing fundamentals. particularly copywriting, getting very deep in that. And then I started applying that to advertising because I said I had the organic strategies and so that was back in ,, I started learning advertising. I joined it. I worked like a contractor for this advertising agency. and this guy became my mental. So I I literally went from spending bucks a day on my own ads to like over a hundred $, a month like literally overnight. I was just thrown in the deep end. with this guy named Jason Horn on, and I learned pretty much most of what I know with advertising through Jason and his frameworks, and then I applied my copywriting to to what I learned with Jason how to scale campaigns, and then, through Jason I was able to write copy for Neil Patel and Bob Proctor and Mike Dill and all these other amazing coaches. So that was back ,, like Jason, ,, I’ve been running my own agencies since then. So that’s what that years have been running paid ads for. So. But here, throughout that whole time. I don’t even care about like what the latest AI thing is. I I don’t look at what’s new with Facebook. I don’t look at all the different new placements, or the new hacks, or anything like that I like. All I focus on is, what does the market want? And then, you know. create a really great message, a great offer for that market. As long as I do that my campaigns convert and I have to worry about all of the bright, shiny stuff. So I’m not the guy of like what’s the latest and greatest, but my campaigns convert. So that’s why clients come to see me. Do you think there’s much difference. So you know your specialty is with coaches. Do you think there’s really much difference in what you do for coaches versus for services or agencies or, well, yeah. So when I say coaches like high ticket services, I generally help as well. So like you, I can accountants, financial advisors, financial planners. This. So any type of service by business is like where I am. But yeah e-commerce, I mean, it’s all the same. The fundamentals are all the same. It’s number one, you stop with them. It’s just business, right? So businesses, you start with the market. It’s always market first, like the people that are actually buying your program or your product. You have to know them inside and out. That’s whether you’re an e-commerce or whether you’re in a a coach, or whether you’re an account, and you have to know who you’re selling to, what they want. What are their problems, that you’re solving, what they fear is their frustrations. Once you know your market inside and out. So the avatar of the Avatar right, all the stuff that we know we should be doing so if you crafty your avatar, and you might. And you research that market. Then you communicate. Your offer could be an ecommerce product program, whatever it is, in a way that links up with those frustrations and those challenges. Right? This is the whole. Given what they want, or what it sell on what they want, and give them what they actually make right? Sell them what they want, which is the result which might be, hey? I’d love to get more dates, for, you know, get more data. I’d love to help fix my marriage, or I would love to lose weight, whatever that result is. I sell them what they want, which is the the result. The outcome is generally what that means, and then give them what they need. That’s where you’ve given the program. Well, that’s where you give them the e-commerce product. And and that’s what you would explain how this thing that you have helps them get that result that they want. So that’s all marketing is really, it’s it’s pretty straightforward. But we we kind of we complicated because we’re so we know our product, our program. So we’re so deep in our. in our own product, we tend to just blow it out. The features, and and we cause we know the features are so cool. Then there’s that’s where there is like the lost in translation. The pro the prospect doesn’t really understand. How does how does that feature actually help me get get what I want. And so this is, this is essentially why people hire me is because I can help make that. that that I can help kind of be the

Stacy Jones:
What’s the person that translates translator marketing translator? I guess I think it’s really easy for businesses, coaches, entrepreneurs, owners whomever it might be to get kind of. You know your stuff. You know that what you’re doing is great. You know that it solves problems. And it’s really easy to jump from a to like, maybe, like S or T in the alphabet, and miss a whole lot of filling in the blanks. I just got really deep in this subject. And you just you’re like you gloss over the parts that people actually need is the building blocks to understand what you’re even offering.

Luke Charlton:
l the other thing is we we tell them everything right. We we just like overwhelming with information. And they had just like explodes. And this is one of the things that I struggle with for so many years. Yeah. I love like webinars because you just th that. What tool of a webinar it? It attracts people. But it’s a lead generation and a conversion to all, all in one. That’s like why I loved it. But what I would do a lot of the time was, teach way too much right? Just teach, teach. It’s going a lot of lot of detail, and that just overwhelms people. So what we have to do is we have like. it’s it’s quite hard you have to go back to when you first learned the subject, and you just have to do it really like the basics so basic when you’re teaching in the into your subject that it’s like to you. It feels like this is not valuable at all, because you know your subject so well. It’s like, how could anyone get value out of this? you know me explaining the pro the pro this way. But here’s the thing. This is actually what’s telling clients the other day. you know, just introducing someone to A. A. A. A new way of seeing things is, is really valuable and a new just in just introducing someone to a new strategy without actually explaining the strategy is very valuable in our of itself. So, for example, I think most your listeners would have heard of the term funnel right? It’s pretty pretty popularized by Russell Brunson over the last years. So when Russell first brought that concept to the market he didn’t bring it, he popularized it. He taught it in a webinar. That was his main vehicle. Anyway, the in that webinar, he explained. Why a funnel is so powerful, right? Because it converts paid ads into whatever it is, customers or high paying clients. It’s a very short, you know, couple of pages that you use and all of us you put put in your advertising and outcomes the dollars right? And that’s why it’s so powerful and just learning that for the first time, even though in the webinar I didn’t really go into how to write copy, or how to set up the funnel specifically as very general. But just that concept of learning what a funnel is, and why it’s beneficial that in and of itself is extremely valuable. And that’s but this is really basic. Right? So what you you might have heard, the term takes some, the the takes and the what and the why, but not the how. That’s what I’ve essentially just explained to just teaching the why without any what? Just the why of like. Why, this strategy is better than every other strategy. Why, funnels are better. All why webinars are better, or why this our system is better, that is, you know, of itself. It’s very it’s very beneficial, because people hope because people another another direction, another path. as said Hope and And then the how you will. That’s when they can buy your product or your program, or whatever. But the point is coming back to what we’re saying is. in order to deliver value. You don’t have to take them. Everything like to make the sell. You just have to kind of pitch them the what and the why, and then and that will be enough to them to get your product. But it’s when we go into all the details that can really trip us up or skip details. As you said, it, all actually works. So they just need to know. The glossy of this is the problem you have. This is why this is a solution that we’ll fix it, not how we actually are going to go about fixing. That’s right. And one of the cool things that to really help with this. So I had a client. So I put to get help clients put together like via sales. It’s like a short video. So it is that that has a an outcome. It could be to sell a product or it could. This particular client, like most of our classes to book a call like to get people booking calls in her calendar. and generally there about  min to  min. You don’t really want it too much longer than that, because of just the just the engagement rates in today’s market. You wanted to short as possible. Anyway, she sent me the vase, and I told, this is, if you want it between like maximum  min you can get to or  min even better. She sent me the video, and I was  min long. I didn’t even review it. I just said it’ be your teaching, and that is too too much detail. I don’t even have to like. Look at it. I already know it’s way too much. You go into way too much detail. Take that and cut it in half right? So what that forced her to do was go into the presentation and remove that detail. So that’s the best thing that best piece of advice. If you’re struggling with sales right? Whether it’s on sales, call website whatever it is. great restrictions on yourself. Right? Great one is like the time restriction for a Vsl. If you’re at or  min, give yourself only  min or  min, because that’s gonna force you to take out the detail, and it’s gonna make for you to make your how you’re explaining your system, your product, a lot more basic, a lot more simple. So so creating restrictions really helps with them, cleaning up your copy and and making it so. prospects can understand it a little bit.

Stacy Jones:
So I know you touched on this, but and it didn’t sound like you’re the biggest fan in the world.

Luke Charlton:
But are you using Chat Gpt, or any? A. I just gave it a test to try like different headlines. yeah, at the like, for

Stacy Jones: for like copywriting.

Luke Charlton:
I don’t know. I I I think it’s I think it’s where I see the most power, the moment for me. It it it would be to like if I did like a  min coaching call or an hour long presentation would be to like, plug it in chat. All that that hour long copy. you know, presentation into in touch, everybody and say, Hey, can you summarize these notes? Can you? make it? yeah, summarize it. Basically make the presentation short of, hey, take this and cut it in , you know half of what it what it is. So it’ll simplify for you, and it’ll give you ideas that I don’t. I wouldn’t use it. Like I don’t know. It’s it’s okay, it’s it’s not, it’s not.

Stacy Jones:
It’s not going to replace copywriting at any time soon. But it it can help you with the heavy lifting of like menial tasks that maybe a Va. Would do at the moment. I would say, I think it’s really great for organizations who need to clean up their coffee like our agency uses it. And we have it being used by everyone on our team where even their email communications to clients, right or to productions. And what we do is we work with brands and put them into movies and shows and product placement and the like, and just a day to day communication style. It helps even people get started writing. Or, as you were saying, you know, if you have too much stuff. Having it break it down so that it helps you identify. Where are the actual main topics you’re talking about so that you get rid of a lot of the fluff, too. So that’s what my, I all right, because I’ve done so much copywriting.

Luke Charlton:
I automatically don’t. I don’t. Yeah, it’s Nate. So that’s why for me, person I but I can see, because of all the coach that I do on copyrighting a lot of people could use it for that. that that is a night for me. actually, there’s another great tool for that. It’s called Hemingway App. I think it is.
And basically what you can do. You put an email in there. You put a sales page whatever bit of copy that your prospect is reading, or yeah, potential client or whatever. and the Hemingway will tell you it. It’ll give you a readability score, and it’ll highlight kind of easy to read and hard to read sentences.

Stacy Jones:
and it’s free. You just literally copy and past it in. And the readability for copy should be around. Grade or or grade .

Luke Charlton:
And generally most people don’t do it. Integrate third grade to . And when I often give this tool one of the you know, for my coaches to use, they say, well, my, my prospects are smart, you know their executives or something. It’s like, well, you know. just because they’re smart. It doesn’t mean that they want to work harder to consume your message right? So you want to. They’re still human. The here’s the thing. The more energy that it takes some to consume your message like thinking that they have to do. even if they generally got a higher queue like you’re gonna get less people engaging with it. So you it behooves you like. If you want more people to get free, a message and click on the offer, or whatever it is that you’re trying to promote. It behooves you to simplify a message as much as possible as we’ve discussed already, and that’s a great tool, and that that’s one of the tools that helped me get into the how? It became more a night in terms of just writing pithy, like writing. Very, yeah, with with less fluff. Basically writing to the point. but that’s a great tool that will help point out your bad sentences.

Stacy Jones:
So when you’re working with a new client, and you are trying to figure out where to start, because I’m assuming people don’t come to you and say, here’s exactly what we need more. So they say, help.

Luke Charlton: This is what we have.
That’s what we always start in that regard. and then I always have a the same process that I go through. which is We race. We like a Who’s your dream client who we going after? Then we look at their offer and make sure that office speaks to that dream client Then we once the mark and the offer is done, and they kind of match up. The third step is, we set up the appointment system. So the system that we use to generate appointments is very simple. We just run an add, and generally that pitches a free call like in a, you know, free call, strategy, session, or whatever game plan. Sometimes it pitches their program. If they offer is good enough. We literally pitch their coaching program in the ad, and that goes straight to their calendar. And that, and that’s the system. And then we show them how to close. So we, in terms of like. Do we know where to like? That’s our process that we use every time?

Stacy Jones:
so that’s where we always start. I’m not sure if that answers to question no. And so what are some of the mistakes you typically see people making with copywriting? I right like. But what are the statements that you see, that are just like, go to that. You’re like, yeah, they did it again.

Luke Charlton:
so that’s a good question. so first step is, yeah, that kind of half passing the research, right? So, not knowing their market well enough, I would say, is, it is a big mistake. So really, knowing your market. Now, we could just have a bit of a an advantage here. A luxury is that we? Because we do sales, calls every time you do a sales call, you’re actually having a conversation with your market. So you get to learn about the fees and frustrations. But if you’re running like an ecommerce, or if you’re like an executive in your detached from your market you might not be on those calls, but that’s one of the best things to do is literally literally talk to your market. Yes, you can go on forums to do your research to Another one is, and like a books related to your topic. Amazon reviews! Amazon reviews are great, they will tell you. Hey, I love this book because of Xyz, and so I’ll tell you their desires, and then we’ll say, but I didn’t like it, because it didn’t help me with this right? So you’ll learn a lot from from Amazon reviews on what a market likes and what their frustrations are on, what they they’re looking for. And that type of thing. but yeah, actually having real world conversations with your market is is important. and the reason why I say that is because then, when once you know your market, you know, like what they’re looking for, how they describe their problem that you solve. Then you put that in in an ad, and that’s all copywriting really is. It’s just finding out what your market wants, and just reflecting it back to them. That that’s literally all it is. And I think that’s a big misconception with copyrighting is that you know we sit down with a blank bit of paper and we go. How do we write some amazing copy? Amazing copy is just what the market is, what we found out in our research. And we’ve just put it in a structured format, right? So it’s going to hit. What’s the headline? What’s the intro? That’s all formulaic. But we fill that in. You know the the headline, the intro, the bullets, the you know, the offer that all gets filled in from the research. So we just go. Oh, they, this is the main problem. In this out. They just all they want more dates. And I want them in days. Okay, how to get. Let’s try that head on how to get dates and days. That can be the headline, because that’s kind of like what we hear the most about what they want or whatever. So all we’re doing with the copyright is reflecting back. And that’s why I say it. It starts. It starts with the market. Now, the next thing I next big mistake in that in terms of the actual copywriting. Well, yeah, it is is probably not being clear enough with their language. And again, I think there’s a misconception that with with copyrighting that you, you have to be very, you have to use like big words and be very Have you know not that really great has said, like cent words that are very impressive, but my copy is really direct and straight to the point. You know who you know, who has great copy like this, Frank. So if you go look at Frank Kern’s copy. It’s really, it’s really basic. He just he just uses really good copywriting fundamentals. And it there might be like. like how to get. Then, you know, something simple, like the new way to get clients on the Internet, or something like that, and and really basic, not not fluffy. But it it. It speaks to what the market wants, which was like getting clients. So I think you know, just speaking to that main problem that your market need solving whatever that is doing, that in the first instances, just doing the really clear way like, do you like? I will help you with the diabetes, you know, diabetes. Do that? What? What? What? What’s the problem? Speak to that problem? That’s the first thing we very clear that Vm. And big ambiguity is a really big problem with with copy. Clara, I I say, clarity converts with when I’m when I’m instructing my clients. Clarity converts. So SIM, again simplifying a message you simple words to describe. He get, do you have this problem? Yes, I can help. He’s how I can help. And I just put that in almost always. It’s how to headline how to get X results right? The result relates to the problem with this specific methodology, right? Whatever that is. That’s the unique mechanism. That’s a little bit more. advance. But keeping a simple how to get X result in element in why, amount of time, how to get X result in days, how to get it in  h, how to get in the next  min, whatever that is. So again, just K, this is where using copywriting frameworks can be really helpful. That’s a good place to start if you’ve done your research. So copywriting frameworks are great because they help you kind of keep your message simple and straightforward, direct to the point.

Stacy Jones: Don’t think you have to be amazing with with language. You get all your language from your prospects. Well, I think also you mentioned it again with and with the examples that you’re giving is that you’re really painting a picture of the end results that is being sought. So on the end. Result. That’s where the so. If you ever want to raise your price, come up with a better result like position, your offer to solve. So, for example.

Luke Charlton:
I’ve got a my my campaign manager. She does branding for coaches like in a separate business for herself. and she’s like, Hey, look, I want to sell this service to coaches. it’s like a branding package.

Luke Charlton: And she said, I, it’s gonna be at $,. And okay, what do? What do you? What do I get for that? It’ll say I’m a coach. I’m your dream cloud. What do I get for that. She’s like, what you get is a logo and like a

Stacy Jones:
like a color palette or something for your website. So you know what your colors are. Not that that was basically like a logo and colors. And that’s how you and that’s how this she described her offer and So I’m like, well, that’s not with grand and then

Luke Charlton:
literally, serendipitously, like the an ad popped up on my Instagram. That is it. That day or the next day. and it said. Let me show you how to double your conversions in your funnel with graphic design. So basically, it was like a a webinar where a guy was inviting. It’s like, Hey, I’ll show you how it, with your graphic design, which is the same thing. Branding graphic design is all the same how to double your conversions. Right? So he’s teaching basically the the same thing. She she actually does kind of similar stuff as well. The same thing. but he’s positioned. He’s offered to solve a bigger result. So now now he’s he can sell that service, even though it’s basically the same thing as what my campaign manager selling for a much higher price point. So the the point is, if you want to. you know, raise your prices, which is an e-commerce, or whatever position your offer to S, or communicate in a way that we’re selling the most valuable result that you can for your market, and that’s a big mistake that we with copywriting is that we we’re not speaking to an end result, that is, particularly if it’s appealing. It’s kind of appealing. And actually, I I go to client today, she said. she she’s an $, relationship program to help her clients like he their marriage. And she said. You know, getting a lot of people on. They have the money. but they bought, she said. This is her what they book at the $, price. And again, before even reviewing her calls. I I can tell her I I told her. or I can tell that the reason why they book at the price is because she’s not linking the that that result in was like a big enough end results that , right? So that’s her. She’s not selling them correctly, so she’s not finding out what it, what, what, what’s their dream? Marriage? What that? What would they really love to get to? What would that feel like if they had their marriage like that? Where are they now getting the pain? And then okay. And then you would link. Hey, here’s what you get in this program. I’m gonna help you get that in result that you just described that would be amazing. Oh, it’s just K, and now it’s like, Oh, yeah, that’s that’s a no brainer, but they’re going all that’s that’s K. That’s not work it worth it. She’s not doing a good enough job finding out what that big end result is that the that the prospect wants. So they’ve come back to what you’re saying at the value. Like the value your your price is always linked to the value. The value is in the result that you’re promising that your product or program can get.

Stacy Jones:
And most of the time I think a lot of people miss that. And where they’re they explaining what their actual value is. And so that comes down to what you said and the prop, the lack of being able to support the pricing that you’re doing. But it also it’s more than just that, I mean, sure you could sell things at a lower level. It’s also making it where people don’t find you valuable even at any level. Necessarily, if you don’t have that reasoning and understanding of why.

Luke Charlton:
exactly right, and I’ll give some more advice on how to the the best way to find the value. I call them high ticket problems, I mean, because I’m in the high ticket space. So that’s why I call it that. But it it applies this. This approach from, or principal applies to, e-commerce as well. If you want to, you know, raise your prices, you, as that you position it to to sell a bigger result. Right? Your, you know, communicate you can. So. But where? Where? The easiest place to find that is just like a bigger problem, or like, you know what’s the if you can solve a bigger problem for your market just like that guy that I’m mentioned the the graphic designer. Hey? I could give you some Logos and some design. You know, some nice colors for your website, or I can show you how to increase the conversions of your funnel. That’s a problem like low converting funnels is the is the problem. Increase it, which reduces your cost per acquisition increases profits. Blah blah blah The easiest way to find that is like is to solve a bigger problem. That’s all that is to salt. Just go to your mind. It’s always your market. Go, always go to your market, find out what’s the biggest problem that they have? Can your product solve that if it can sell them what they want. give them what they need, sell them what they want. Yes, I can help you with that. This is how I can help you. I can get you in this amount of time with this little effort and get it this cheaply and do it with this product or program. So it it all starts with the market and identifying their problems and and just picking out what’s the biggest, most valuable one like what’s the biggest, most painful one, I should say. Sorry, the biggest, most painful, most urgent problem, the bleeding neck problem. What is that? Because if you can solve that, they will pay you

Stacy Jones:
that that’s when they’ll pay you. What else do people do that you’re just like? Come on, peeps. Figure this out

Luke Charlton:
kind of like what I was doing in the beginning, which is thinking that a new funnel, learning a new strategy, will fix their broken message. So it’s like, Oh, my book funnel is not converting, or this appointment. The Webinar funds are converting. So I’m gonna go try this new AI funnel, or you bought funnel, or whatever it is. But you’re still transporting the same broken message into these other funnels. As I said, like my, the way that I help my clients get classes. It’s very simple. We’d literally just add calendar. It just goes straight to the like. Straight they call it might be like a short like  min video or something. But it’s very, very simple. The reason why we can do that is because it’s we. We spend time getting the message right? Like, what is the what is an offer that this market really wants. And because we pick out that painful problem and high ticket problem, they book appointment. So, for example. I’ve got business partners. They were clients that our business partners, one She helps women who have cancer. So she went through cancer. She has a system that she uses with her clients that helps them to basically beat cancer without traditional protocols. And so that’s a big problem, right? Cancer. So we literally pitch the program in the ad, and she’s getting a I mean, last week. like, all the week before her point was dollar each, like dollar for an appointment. Yeah, dollar for an appointment.

Stacy Jones: It’s a lot of work for appointment work for dollar for appointment or

Luke Charlton:
so. It’s . So dollar. It costs her to book up some. Okay, yeah, which is very low. It’s very low, it? and and yeah, so we we don’t have, like, you know, a book funnel, which then leads up sales and down sales and things that we don’t have a webinar. We just go straight to, you know, straight into the calendar, and then we have a just a good sales process and a good offer. So we we live, we, we work on the most important things, the fundamentals, the messaging, the offer. and then we just keep our strategy really simple. But the point is, if if your whatever strategy you funnel strategy you’re using to convert your traffic into appointments or sales. you know. If that’s if it’s not working generally, it’s not the strategy. It’s your messaging in there. So that’s that’s a

Stacy Jones: sorry something’s confusing about it.

Luke Charlton: Exactly right. And that’s usually it’s just like the Cl. It’s a clarity like the prospect just doesn’t understand

Stacy Jones:
at the simplest level. How can your offer help me so? And then beyond that, I mean, besides getting ahead the initial cell and and getting them on board, that the offer can help. My assumption is that without really good copy writing, you can also continue to lose them through the sales process, even to the point of the pricing mechanism or proposal, or however it might be, by not being really super clear again on what the deliverables are and what you’re getting. If you’re giving them just a ton of information.

Luke Charlton:
Yes. So there’s so basically, the way it works is why we so you you you find out about your market right? Then you craft your offer. and that’s kind of like the ends of your funnel. If you think about it, you’ve got your market here that you’re advertising to, and you’re leading them to your offer, which is at the end of the sales. Conversation. for for me, for any common stores like the the website that we’re sending them to right with the sales, with information on the product. But anyway. so yes. But you start there and then you ideally, you want to keep everything like to cause you. You’re right if you don’t have every, all the steps right? So the first step is to, you know, to go to this page which explains how to book an appointment right? And here’s what we’re gonna talk about on the appointment. And then the next step is to like show up to the appointment. So we’ve got to have the show up emails and the reminder emails. And then we have the generally do a step process for our pay that campaign. So we talk to them. First we qualified, and then we invite them to a second, which is the sales call, and then we’ll have trainings that we give them like a short training between the first and second call. Anyway, everything needs to be in alignment. So the the emails need to explain. You know, they need to be all in alignment with. And what that means is the messaging generally just always comes back to that main problem. Hey? On this call we’re gonna talk about how to get consistent dates on this call. We’re gonna talk about, you know, there’s a shop emails, right how to get how to lose weight or whatever you know, it’s a plan to lose weight. So it’s always in the line with that main high ticket problem. because, as you said, if you if you don’t have your messaging and alignment, then yeah, you you lose people all the way to the very last second, when you tell them the price of the of the program, or whatever. So answer, your question is yes, and that’s why, there’s a it’s it’s basically think of it like the well, the good thing is, you don’t have to have them all in alignment out of the gate. I I like to think of it like I like dominoes. So the first domino is, let’s just get people booking in the calendar. We just focus on that. And we don’t even worry about the style like the sales, script or anything until we get that. Okay, now, people are booking in. Okay, are they showing up? Okay, let’s get the shop. Let’s make sure they’re watching that training. That’s all. Okay, we qualifying them. Yeah, they qualifying the coming through the second call, and once you not go over that domino, then you don’t have to worry about it again. It’s just like that’s the thing that we do every single time. And it just it’s repeated. So that is the cool thing about the process. You can kind of just do it one step at a time, and that’s what I do with. Do with my clients.

Stacy Jones:
And then the type of clients that you work with are very vast, and you see that as as far as when I say vast, the coaches, the services, and the like, and they’re they’re not all exactly the same type. Does this differ at all? Or is it truly exactly the same for everyone?

Luke Charlton:
Well, my marketing is created in such a way, where I speak to coaches that one appointments in their calendar with paid advertising. So I’m very specific about that. That I use, like my messaging is only Hey, if you want to turn pads into high paying clients. We’ll create the system for you, and then we’ll show you like we to book appointments in the calendar. Then we’ll show you how to close them. So generally, yeah, Co, most likely percent of the time I’m talking to a coach. They know that they want to run paid ads. So they’re a little bit more experienced. they don’t want to be organic stuff anymore. And that’s by design. That’s who I want to speak to. So I’m very clear that I it’s about kind of advertising before we speak so to have that mindset that they’re going to be spending money and they all want appointments in the calendar. They want like a systemized scalable system. So again, my messaging is dialed in the way where I do speak to the basically the same type of coach every single time. Yeah, sometimes I’ll get like a more advanced coach that’s maybe had my podcast or whatever they know, because I’ve scale campaigns to like a dollar a day. with with some clients. So I can work with more experienced coach as well. So they kind of come through every now and then as well, but generally it’s the coach that want to get into advertising for the for the first time.

Stacy Jones:
Do you think that most people approach copy writing? We already kind of talked about it before? But just that it’s too much with everything that they’re doing, that they’re just not drilling it down to the core essentials of being able to really talk to the point that they are trying to get across. So yeah, we talked about the fluff in there is it? Are people, I guess. What I’m trying to say is, are people doing trying to add too much into what they’re trying to do. You’re trying to get someone to show up for a phone call, and that’s your entire intent. Other people are trying often in their copyrighting that they’re trying to. They’ve gone past the show up for the appointment. and that they’re adding too much filler and fluff trying to also get it closed. I haven’t even had the appointment yet. But now they’re trying to close the business. Yeah, probably. Yeah, I I understand what you’re saying.

Luke Charlton:
yes, I do see that it’s like as it’s come back to what we said before, but putting in too much of the fluff in there, and not trading it just like I said before, we pill it like a domino. Right? Just what’s the next action step that you want them to take? And what are the benefits to them for taking that action step. So, for example. what booking the appointment? What’s the benefit for them having a call with you? What are you gonna do on the call together? One of the benefits of the call, focusing on that and then getting them to shop for the calls is reminding them of those benefits again. That’s what we do with the shop emails. Then once they’re on the on the call, you take the regular sales process, and you just again focusing on now the program. But yet to try and start. I do see this quite a bit where you start talking about your program or your product in the show up emails, or. you know, at other points of the funnel or the sales process when it’s not needed. Yes, that does, that does happen. So I’m not sure if that’s what you that is. That was, that was a long and short way to get to the same point where you are trying to actually close the deal before you even actually have the. It’s like this prospect. Don’t even know about you. Just get them to opt into email this first, like, just give away a free guide to get them on your emails before you even start talking about your program. yes, there is. It’s often trying to get to that cell a bit too quickly, because again. we will. We’re in love with our program, and we think that soon as we start talking about it, of course, everyone else is going to be in love with it, and they’re just gonna want to buy, which? No, we have to take them through. you probably had an analogy before. You can’t just ask them to marry you on the first day right? There’s like a process that you have to have to take them through. Well, if you open it sales, I mean, it’s still up. You still have to get them on the phone call right? They so often know that’s still a process to get to. If someone just land on your website and it will just like a long sales page. The chance, even if you’re an amazing copyright of the chance of you converting that completely cold prospect that’s just is is like. point is, you’re an amazing copyright, right point , like % But if you’re an amazing sales person. you can like, as said, if you’re really really good, you can do like a one. Call close. And this is why I don’t do that. One call closes with my clients because they’re not amazing at sales. I want to make it easy for them. So we do a step. We do a  min first, and make sure the person’s qualified. If they are, we invite them to a second call, and then before the second call, we get them to watch a a pre call training for like  min, that just again just introduce them to it. More about the coach and their process and the case days and testimonials. It just warms them up.

Stacy Jones:
and then it makes that that final sales call. Really, you know, a lot easier to to close. But if you’re. It also just clifies them. And nicely. And then it doesn’t exactly right of your acquisition. You weren’t actually interested. Exactly right? So the step, I find is really really good for paid traffic. because you’re scaling it right? So you’re getting a lot of people coming through.

Luke Charlton:
that’s why I like the step. But even still there are companies out there just to do one step, and they like Cole Gordon’s company, for example. he he works in sales and his whole program. His whole thing is about his sales program and his sales. People just do one cool, close from paid at like paid ads. Jump on a fine, sell an $, offer in in one call. If you have a really strong sales process and you’re very good at sales. You can like you can do that. I’m not sure why we got got on this topic, but it’s it’s so you’re saying, like, you know, selling a person in one go, you can do it. You have to be very good sales.

Stacy Jones:
And then how can people find you and learn more about you and all of your awesome content.

Luke Charlton:
yeah. So I give a whale pretty much everything for free, because I know we’re looking to bring on. I mean, I’ll do like consulting clients now with their advertising campaigns, but in terms of like the done done for you, that I still don’t leave it anymore. So I just give away everything for free. So I guess the easiest place to check me out is to go to If you just go to Luke, charlotte.com. There’s a you can get on. My, it’s a free guide there, the email office that get clients for free. So you can just opt into that, get the free guide get in my email list. And I also have a podcast that I do most days with like to  min episodes on marketing and sales advice where I just I was going to create a paid newsletter, and but I just couldn’t be bothered. So I just give it all away in that, in the podcast of everything I learned over the last decade. So

Stacy Jones:
on that one yeah. okay, any last words of parting advice to our listeners today.

Luke Charlton:
Any last words the fundamentals might not be the sexiest thing, but other things that make money. So I’d focus on that, on the things you know, the the boring things that may be tedious in the beginning, but they are the things that make you money.

Stacy Jones:
Well, that is a good, solid strategy. Do the things that are super boring because they will lay the groundwork so that you can go out and make lots of money.

Luke Charlton: Yeah. So I when you say it, a boring like to me, I like them because they I might. They might make you money. So maybe in the book, in the in the beginning they probably feel a bit tedious. So boring. But I assure you, once the sales start coming in you. You’ll be the one telling all of your employees to like. Go study this copywriting book, and I don’t want to study that copywriting book. But

Stacy Jones: anyway, it’s fun when he’s not making money. It’s my point. It’s not fascinated with copywriting. I am fascinated with how words self and that you can absolutely

Luke Charlton: change and pivot based on what you’re saying, and that if you’re writing you could, it’s just like the universe reaches out and grabs them and gets to the. And it really is clear and probably the what addicted to addicted. How I got addicted or hooked on copywriting was the power that the just, the power, right it it of like I can literally just sit down right words. And I can make money. you know, and that’s that’s a really empowering place to be in my life, but I know that no matter what happens in to my clients, or the economy, or whatever, I always have that skill to rely on and that, and that is incredibly empowering. I think that’s what got me addicted to the other thing is, it makes money, which is, which is, which is pretty cool as well.

Stacy Jones: gives me a lot of freedom to do what I want. So yeah, for a lot of people. Writing is not easy, and coming up with really home copy is something that they need help with. And it’s not, you know. That is why Chat Bt can’t help for those, you know, that really don’t have any other sources. That’s a place to, that’s true. And it’s also the in. Remember, the chat to it works on input, so the quality of the input is the quality of the output. And that’s why I say, like

Luke Charlton: copywriting is, you don’t have to be amazing at writing all copy. It’s just going to the market, and they will tell you. So you do a bunch of research. You just know your market inside and out there is the frustrations that desires the number one big high ticket problem that you’re solving, and then yes, you can. Then you can go over to chat cheap and help you to kind of organize it. That’s great. But again, the input right. So if you if you got a chat with T and put in the wrong problem that you’re solving for your market or the wrong frustrations. Chat Ibt is just going to spit that. Reflect it back out, and you’re going to go and try and use that message because you put the wrong information in. It’s giving you the wrong information back. So it’s the quality of the output with cat chat. Gbt not. And all these types of copywriting frameworks. So do that know your market. And that’s where it all starts, and that is why copywriters are still going to be needed in the land. Exactly right.

Stacy Jones:
Well, Luke, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate your insights. I think that more businesses, including my own, could leverage better writing in order to storytell, because that’s really what you’re doing, and words are extremely powerful and impactful. And I appreciate you helping shed light on exactly how impactful they can be. And to all of our listeners, thank you for tuning into another episode of marking mistakes and how to avoid them. I look forward to chatting with you this next week. and until then, if you have any questions ever about how your brand? Can you come part of someone’s script who has very well written it? Of course, in a movie or a TV show through product placement. Please reach out to my team and we’re happy to connect and chat more. Have a great awesome yeah, that was a great combo. it’s a lot of fun. You did a very good job. You’re a national. So you have the gift of words. Yes, well, good is very long time. So yeah, I’m right. But I I appreciate that. Thanks, Stacey. So we’ll get everything out to you, and then stay in touch.