EP292: The Great Resignation With Krister Ungerbocker | Talk SHIFT

In today’s episode, Stacy sits down with Kristrr Ungerbocker who is the is the Founder of Talk SHIFT, a global movement that focuses on leadership language, and teaches why strong communication leads to better results in both business and life. He is also the author of 22 Talk Shifts, a #1 Wall Street Journal Best Seller that shares numerous ways to strengthen communication. The two chat about the great resignation as well the difference between working to live and living to work. They also share the ways that you can better motivate your team, and the importance of adopting a compassionate, yet understanding leadership style.

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). Here’s your host, Stacy Jones.Stacy Jones (00:15):
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). I’m Stacy Jones, and I’m so happy to be here with you all today, and want to give a very warm welcome to Kristrr Ungerboeck. Kristrr is the founder of Talk SHIFT, a global movement that focuses on leadership language and teaches why strong communication leads to better results in both business and life. He is also the author of 22 Talk SHIFTs, a number one Wall Street Journal bestseller that shares numerous ways to strengthen communication. He’s the former founder and CEO of an award-winning global tech company named after himself, Ungerboeck, where he helped it’s value grow from one million to $200 million. Kristrr is the recipient of St. Louis Business Journal’s 40 under 40 Award, and has appeared in numerous publications, such as NPR, Entrepreneur, Forbes, and more. Today, Kristrr and I are going to be chatting about leadership, communication and language. We’ll learn what works from his perspective, what should be avoided and how some businesses and leaders miss the mark. Kristrr, welcome. So happy to have you here today.Kristrr Ungerboeck (01:19):
It’s great to be here.Stacy Jones (01:21):
Well, I love starting off always, and having you share with our listeners your journey of how you got here today, not so much on the podcast, but you’ve launched an amazingly successful business. Wow. A $200 million evaluation is just a little, that’s insane for most of our listeners to understand how one man can do that, but you’ve written a number one best selling book. You’ve done so many things that are monumental. What drives you and got you here?Kristrr Ungerboeck (01:48):
What got me here? So maybe the, I would say what got me here is a strong desire to make my father proud, and ultimately never being able to do so which [crosstalk 00:02:07].Stacy Jones (02:06):
That’s a daddy issue, but it sounds like it’s worked out well for you.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (02:10):
It has, it has over the long, it’s been a journey, but yeah, that was actually part of the thing what led to the book is, I say in the beginning of the book that I found myself at a YMCA after building this $200 million company, I found myself looking in the mirror, tears streaming down my cheeks, and I saw the leader that I’d become, which is a leader without followers. And so I had read all these business books and everything I wanted to do to make my father proud. And ultimately, I realized that I had become a pretty angry, more demanding and maybe we got great results, but there was probably not with the most compassionate style.

Stacy Jones (03:00):
Is that because of controlling more so?

Kristrr Ungerboeck (03:03):
Yeah, I think that a lot of it was controlling and nothing was ever good enough. I was never a yelling leader. And ultimately I realized after I, so I wrote the book and after I found myself at the YMCA, I was like, I’d read all these books and where did I go wrong? And ultimately at the same time that I left my business behind my wife decided to leave me behind two weeks later. So I really had my life was basically at ground zero, and I was like, well, what did I miss? And so I threw out all the business books and that I had been reading since I was 12 years old. And I just went and surrounded myself with all the people that I would’ve judged as weird and far out and crazy back when I was a CEO thinking, maybe I’ll learn something from these people. And I always kept my CEO hat on thinking I’m going to bring some ideas back and repackage them and translate them into words that work in a business context.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (04:00):
And that was really what resulted in the book, was taking all these things, when I would go on these journeys and experiences, a good litmus test was would a CEO raise his eyebrows if I said, hey, I’m going to do this? And they’d be like, I would never do that. I’d be like, then I’m going and I’m going to see what I’m going to learn. And then a lot of the stuff was things I’m like, yeah, that’s not going to work in a business context, but what the ultimate thing that came out of it was a good blend of the aggressive leadership style that did result in a lot of our success, but with also the opposite of the equally compassionate language that probably led to my, the lack of compassionate language is what led to my downfall. So I’m like, it was the intentions to write a book that blends the hard and the soft, if you will.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (04:53):
And with 2020 being what it was and quarantine, this book I don’t think would’ve been nearly successful prior to 2020, but now it’s, in many respects, it’s really, I would hope that it’s a little bit of a handbook for how to lead in this new world, what we’re leading in. Part of what was language was really informed by the book because I started businesses in France and Germany and we actually had offices around the world, but I had to learn to lead in two foreign languages as an adult. And so language was really present for me as I was writing the book and thinking of, German’s a very direct language, English and French are much more indirect in different ways.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (05:41):
And I wanted to build tools that were practical, fill in the blanks phrases that anyone could pick up, like you finished chapter one in the book and you’re like, wow, I’ve already got one phrase that I can use to change how I lead either in the context of my personal relationships, or in my professional life. So, that was what we did.

Stacy Jones (06:01):
And off you went to the races, getting a massive readership because people found what you were sharing to be spot on to what their needs are right now.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (06:12):
Yeah. Well, as you know, as a business owner, it’s a different world, we’ve got the great resignation going on. And I think my sense, having worked outside of Europe, outside of the US, and worked in Australia and Asia, I think it’s a bigger than a great resignation. I think there’s more like a great renegotiation is happening, that Americans are coming more towards the rest of the world in terms of work life balance. When I moved to Germany, they said, ah, you Americans, you all live to work and we work to live. And I’ve met a friend of mine, he’s more of an acquaints of mine, he’s a executive at a pretty large brand, a Fortune 50 brand that everyone would recognize. And he’s all in with bonuses, making about 400, $500,000 a year in a Midwestern town. So, it’s probably like, that’s probably millions [crosstalk 00:07:06].

Stacy Jones (07:06):
He’s like a bazillionare because of that, right?

Kristrr Ungerboeck (07:11):

Stacy Jones (07:13):

Kristrr Ungerboeck (07:13):
And he was like, they gave me a raise and doubled my, an offer to double my responsibility, and it would’ve mean maybe a hundred or a thousand or more in compensation, and he is like, I turned it down. He’s like, it just wasn’t worth it to be gone on additional 40 nights a year, traveling with the responsibility. And at the same time, he’s got this side gig with an internet business. And I said, so how many hours are you spending? And this is the reason why he reached out, because he wanted to know what we were doing with internet marketing. And he said, I’m spending 25, 30 hours a week on this.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (07:45):
And so I said, let me get this straight. The company that 12 months ago, or 18 months ago was paying you $400,000 for 60 hours of your time, is now paying you $400,000 for 15 to 20 hours of your time. And there are a lot of top performers out there that basically are sometimes our best employees, my belief is that our best employees quit and leave because they can find something else, but a lot of people, maybe it’s even some of our best employees who have golden handcuffs, because they’ve got stock options or whatever, they don’t quit and leave, they quit and stay.

Stacy Jones (08:24):
So what does quitting and staying mean?

Kristrr Ungerboeck (08:26):
Quitting and staying means, well in the simplest thing saying, I used to be really committed to my job and I would think about it on my drive home and in the shower and on weekends. And now I’m just going to spend more time with my family. And once five o’clock rolls around, I’m going to flip off the switch and that I’ll turn it back on at 9:00 AM or whatever my first meeting is tomorrow. Yeah. That’s probably a good one. And then the more serious one is when someone says, yeah, I’m actively going to eat into the 40 hours per week that I’m being paid almost as a, it’s like the old equivalent of somebody in a manufacturing, it’s the white collar equivalent of someone in a manufacturing plant laying down on the job because they just don’t like their boss.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (09:14):
I had one reader of the book who did work in more of a blue collar setting most of his career, told me about stories where I think he was working in a car repair shop. And he was thinking of his communication. He told me he actually had cases where employees actually would lay down on the job when would ask him to do something. And he’d say, what are you doing? He’s like, they wanted to get him fired.

Stacy Jones (09:45):
They hated him that much.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (09:45):
Yeah. And so, this happens, this doesn’t just happen in blue collar, it happens in the office too. It’s just called solitaire, whatever computer game or Facebook you have on your other tab before you shift tab over, if somebody’s looking over your shoulder.

Stacy Jones (09:58):
Well, I think COVID showed us a lot of things this last year, we saw in the news the stories about, oh, so and so has a 40 hour job. And they were just found out that they had another 40 hour job that they were doing at the same time, had two computers set up and they would literally just be moving to one to the other and phasing out on calls and figuring out and scheduling their days so that they could get two incomes. This is something that’s legitimately happening right now.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (10:26):
Yeah. Yeah. But I think that, that’s where we as leaders, having been a CEO, I still have a lot of friends who are CEOs and I find myself frequently saying, I am so happy that I’m not a CEO of a big company any longer because it’s so challenging. We are, not only are we competing with that where employees can work two jobs or have a side gig, we’re competing with people who potentially that side gig is probably either being their own boss, or maybe contributing to someone else in their life where they’re starting something up and trying to do. And ultimately it’s hard enough to win talent to come to work for our companies, but then we get them inside the walls. And then it’s like, well, do you like your boss?

Kristrr Ungerboeck (11:08):
So ultimately every single leader, we’re not just competing as companies for talent, but each leader is competing for mind share of each person. And all of our communication, I just read a survey that was in both Harvard Business Review and Inc Magazine, and I won’t get the words exactly, but it was 91% of a thousand employees surveyed rated communication skills as a lack of communication as the biggest problem with leaders that they work for. And so, yeah, ultimately I think it’s about having better, if you want to change how you lead and you want to change your results, it’s actually as simple as changing your words.

Stacy Jones (11:52):
And part of that can be very difficult, I think, for leaders, because they have so much stress that’s put on them, so much pressure, so much bandwidth that they’re finding that they’re running around and having to not only figure out how to run their companies, but now they’re having to figure out how to not be a therapist to their team members, but to a degree and where they’re taking on different roles of trying to inspire, enlighten and educate and teach and get that continual buy-in by showing that their team, rah, rah, rah, of this individual, even when you don’t necessarily want to be team rah, rah, rah, because you’re thinking about the detriment to the business of what’s happening in order to allow these individuals to pursue their passions, their dreams, their best being of who they want to be while still working within your box of a company.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (12:51):
Yeah. Well I think as leaders, one of the things I realized as a CEO, I think that ultimately, I think the reason why we were able to build this great company is that we had a vision that great people wanted to follow. And so, my vision was we’re going to build a billion dollar company and a lot of great people were like, I want to be part of that, especially when we were smaller and, but what I realized after I left is that is there’s really two tools that we have as leaders to get to inspire followership. One is a vision or a purpose that people want to be part of. And the only people who really have that tool at their disposal is the CEO, couple people at the top, maybe you’re a president of a division or something like that. And then the other tool is to be someone that people want to follow.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (13:37):
And so that’s the only tool that all of us, every leader up and down the organization actually has at their disposal. And ultimately I think that my downfall as a leader was that I feel I had a vision that people wanted to follow, but I wasn’t someone that people wanted to follow. And I think that if you have both of those, then that’s really the magic point. I’m quite certain we would’ve already been a billion dollar company before I retired if we had had that kind of combination.

Stacy Jones (14:09):
It’s not an easy combination to come up with though either.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (14:13):
Actually I think it’s, well, I wrote the book because I think it’s a lot easier than… I tried for five or six years once I started to get feedback that I was maybe a little bit too demanding, a little bit too direct, often I hear this, people saying, oh, you’re too sensitive. I used to say things like that. And I say, consider the, if you ever think that other people are too sensitive, consider the other possibility that you’re too insensitive. And that was probably a big part of my leadership style is I was not. It wasn’t necessarily that other people were too sensitive, it was that I was too insensitive. And so it’s really about, and I spent a long time reading and thinking of how to really bridge the gap, how do I blend this aggressive, demanding, we’re going to do amazing things style with the more compassionate style that people can say, hey, this is a person that I want to follow.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (15:03):
And I honestly, I never really found before I left the company that we built, I never really found the answer. And that was what I went seeking is, and what I found is that it’s actually not, a lot of the new age people would say we got to change what’s in our heart or what’s inside of us. But being someone who learned separate languages is if you want to change your words that you speak to others, let’s say I change what’s in my heart, but I still speak to you the same way, how do you know that I change what’s inside? I’m this softhearted person inside, but I still use harsh words.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (15:39):
So I actually believe it’s the opposite. If I change my words, I can actually change myself from the outside in. And ultimately even if I don’t change myself, let’s say I’m as hardhearted as I ever was, but I use more compassionate language with you, do you really care? If ultimately the out that what is presented to you is more compassionate leadership style and more understanding and support for your goals and objectives and passions? So that for me is, we wrote the book 22 Talk SHIFTs. Each chapter has specific questions or fill in the blanks phrases that you can use to lead in different situations and get better results.

Stacy Jones (16:19):
When you’re diving in and talking about the great resignation and you’re sharing that a lot of people are going off and trying to work for another company, or we have the whole new world of hustling. So, everyone wants to be a hustler. Everyone wants their side gig. Everyone wants to, they want to be the entrepreneur and creator of their own future. How does one handle that knowing that you’re talking about sensitivities, you’re talking about not being insensitive, you’re talking about wanting to build employees. How does a leader navigate that in a, it used to be, you signed my employment agreement, you cannot work for anyone else any longer. And that just doesn’t hold. So what do you do?

Kristrr Ungerboeck (17:14):
Well, ultimately the only way to win is to provide people something that they want to do that’s more interesting. And I think there’s two, well, I think there’s two things that we as leaders need to look at is, and I think big part of what I do is also, it’s not just about leadership in the context of business, it’s also about leadership in a marriage or family or as a parent. And I think it boils down to the same thing we need to, what are the behaviors and things we do that convince others to say, hey, I’m excited to do this, or spend more time with this person, whether it’s at work, or follow them in that way, or in personal life. And then I need to minimize the behaviors that cause people to shut down and be like that Stacy or that Kristrr, because I know that my shareholders, which is one of my challenges is I spent more time sometimes laying in bed thinking I want to ring those people’s neck. And I’m like, those were not times that I was thinking about problems for the company.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (18:12):
So if I have 40 or 60 hours a week, all the time that I spend at the water cooler or gossiping with other employees about how I’m so angry about what somebody did, that’s time that’s not spent working. So we need to minimize here and then maximize the good and minimize the bad. And I think to your point is, I think one of the biggest challenges with leaders is, if we don’t get our stress under control and what happens is those negative moments that typically cause people to quit and leave, or quit and stay, are usually things that happen in moments of stress, or anger [crosstalk 00:18:48].

Stacy Jones (18:47):
In a heartbeat.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (18:48):
… frustration and disappointment. Yeah.

Stacy Jones (18:50):

Kristrr Ungerboeck (18:50):
So when I was on the journey building the book, one of the things before when I was CEO, we actually stopped asking when employees leave, why are you leaving? They’re like, oh yeah, I found a really cool gig. And they’re like it’s an opportunity of a lifetime. I’m moving to another city. And we are like, oh, well, of course, we couldn’t have avoided that. But when we started to ask them the question, tell me about the day you decided to update your resume. Tell me about, our job as leaders is not to stop people from leaving, it’s to stop people from looking. And ultimately whether it’s a marriage or a job, or even parents and children where stopping people from looking for other alternatives in terms of people that they want to spend more time with. And when we found the days that people started looking, it was almost invariably, oh, I remember, my boss said this to me that day. And ultimately I ended up getting divorced. And so I applied the same thing to when I was dating.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (19:46):
And I would say, tell me about the day you decided to leave your marriage. And every woman could tell me the, some would be like, I could tell you exactly what I was wearing the day. And often it was two, three, four years later before they actually ended their marriage, but they left so much earlier and employees do the same thing. And so, one of the Talk SHIFTs that’s later in the book is about anger. And usually anger is, in a business context if I ever ask a leader, what emotion are you experiencing around this situation? I’m frustrated. Well, that’s just a synonym for anger. I say, well, what’s another word? I’m disappointed. That’s just another synonym for anger. So I think that anger is probably getting control of our anger is one of the most practical things we can do. In the book, the tool we use for that, I think it’s Talk SHIFT number 19 is, the title is anger conceals the keys to connection.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (20:43):
If I tell you that I’m angry at you or disappointed or frustrated with you as an employee, I put you in a state of fear most likely, is Stacy going to fire me right now, Kristrr are you going to fire me right now? And the neuroscience shows that as soon as we do that, we put someone, the part of their brain that’s responsible for creative thought shuts down.

Stacy Jones (21:04):
Fight or flight.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (21:05):
Yeah. So I’m afraid and you’re frustrated with me, and now I’m actually mentally, physically in a state where I’m actually less able to solve the problem that caused you to be frustrated or disappointed in the first place. And so the tool that we use in that Talk SHIFT is whenever I’m angry is I ask myself, what’s the emotion behind my anger? Because a psychologist will say that anger is a core emotion, but it’s not a primary emotion. It’s usually a byproduct of a deeper emotion. And the question is, the Talk SHIFT is it’s a multiple choice question. What’s the emotion behind anger? Is it fear, sadness, hurt, guilt or shame, or embarrassment is another word. And it’s a multiple choice question where you can only pick one of those five, because there’s always one of them that was like, that’s the closest. And so once I understand the emotion that’s behind my anger, I can have a conversation with the person about that.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (22:02):
So it can be, hey, I’m afraid, I’m afraid, if it’s in a personal relationship, I’m afraid of losing you. If you’re a leader and you’ve got a key employee, you could say, I’m afraid of losing you. And I don’t know what’s going to happen. And yeah, that’s a vulnerable conversation. Does that put the other employee in possibly like, you would think while we [crosstalk 00:22:25].

Stacy Jones (22:23):
The power position.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (22:24):
Yeah. But you know what? I don’t know, as somebody who was one of those employees for many years in all the plug companies I worked for who was one of the key players, do you think they don’t know it already? Really? Your top three people in your company, or your team, they know that they’re like, they’re pretty certain that if they walk out the door and what keeps them there is either their connection to you as the leader, or the purpose of the company, or maybe it’s the work that they do they just love, or it’s because they don’t want to walk out the door and leave their friends and team members behind holding the huge hole that is created.

Stacy Jones (23:04):
Or they’re fearful themselves of the unknown.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (23:08):
Well, that’s a, let’s say, that’s a negative factor that may keep them, I think that if we focus on the positive factors, that would keep them. But you’re correct. I would say the, all other things equal, the people who are at the higher end of the performance spectrum are less likely to be fearful, I would say, not to a tee, but if you’re taking any pop star, or sports star, if they won a Grammy or [crosstalk 00:23:40].

Stacy Jones (23:39):
They’re going to get on another team.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (23:41):
They’re pretty sure they’re going to find another team at that point. And that’s really ultimately our challenge as leaders. It’s really what do we do to keep those top people? Because those are the ones that if you lose the best people and you replace them with mediocre people, and the challenges is that then the mediocre, or the bottom performers, they can’t find something better. So now they’re the ones that quit and stay. And then it’s really difficult to attract a top performer again, because they’re like, wait, I got to drag these other 10 people along [inaudible 00:24:14].

Stacy Jones (24:15):
I’m with the deads.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (24:16):
Yeah. So it can become a downward spiral. And so I think that my sense is what’s probably going to be happening and continue happening over the next six to 12 months is there’s going to be this flight to quality the employee, the employers that are willing to renegotiate the work contract with employees of more work life balance. And we’re going to build a work culture that’s going to fit into your life, not fit around your life. And yeah, we’re going to still have demands that we need the work done, but those are the employers that are going to win the best people. And I think it’s going to become increasingly harder for the companies that aren’t willing to renegotiate that contract to keep great people.

Stacy Jones (25:00):
Yeah, it’s interesting. I belong to an agency ownership group and we meet a couple of times a year and we’re there and we support each other and agency owner after agency owner, they’re losing their staff, they’re losing their team. And we’re a little different at our agency where we’re growing our team right now, where we have tripled in size since COVID versus reduced, we still have people who come in, don’t fit the culture, or who come in and it’s just not the right buy-in and they have something else to do, or there’s a communication error, whatever it might be, that’s always going put this down.

Stacy Jones (25:34):
But I have heard the stats that 40 to 70% of employees are leaving agencies and that’s not just other businesses, but agencies specific. And then at the same time hearing that stat, knowing that it’s true, because I’ve seen it through peer groups, hearing other agencies going, don’t worry, don’t worry about trying to figure out a compensation structure. Don’t worry about trying to do unlimited everything. Don’t worry because it’s going to write itself. And I don’t think it’s going to write itself. I think this is a permanent shift in change in our entire culture.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (26:09):
Well, so what do you think it is about it? Why agencies? I have some thoughts that pop to mind.

Stacy Jones (26:14):
I think because it’s very fast moving. I think there’s a lot. I think that the stress life and management at agencies is very different and we were just interviewing someone the other day I wasn’t even supposed to interview her and someone else got called out so I jumped to in on it. And she turned to me and she said, so the structure that I’m looking for, just so you know, I was like, oh really? Okay. Is that, I like starting to work around nine or nine 30, and I work for a few hours and then I like going to the gym and having lunch with some friends, and then, I’ll come back and do some more work, but I’m out by five. And I’m like, well, for one, I’m not sure what world that actually works in, in general, besides you’re doing your own thing world, but maybe you could work for a brand, but in an agency like we have weekend things, evening things, clients who need something, oh, there’s a snafu, we need to jump in and do this now.

Stacy Jones (27:13):
It’s a very hectic, wild roller coaster of the highest high and the lowest lows, and that’s agency life. So I think that might be a driver for it.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (27:24):
That was my initial thought. Knowing a little bit about agency and consulting is the same. I imagine big law firms, it’s like those are, it’s a little bit more of a, it’s a tougher job, it’s a more demanding job. And I think that, I suspect that it’s a function of this renegotiation that more people are saying that I don’t know if I necessarily I want more balance. And that’s the challenge that I cannot, yeah, that for agency owners and other people in businesses that have traditionally been 50, 60 hour job.

Stacy Jones (28:02):

Kristrr Ungerboeck (28:02):

Stacy Jones (28:02):
90, a hundred, 120. They could [crosstalk 00:28:05].

Kristrr Ungerboeck (28:05):
I worked in consulting my first couple years and yeah, I was in the sleeping under the desk every once in a while. Yeah. So which is great in your twenties, not so great when you got kids and stuff like that.

Stacy Jones (28:16):
No. But it’s also, it’s a very different world as an agency owner to try to shift in when that has been your culture. And when I’m talking to peer groups who are in their forties and fifties or sixties, this is the world they grew up in and this is how they know how to run their businesses. And then all of a sudden being like, you want to be paid more, actually not the same for less hours and that you’re gone at five and you’re not doing the proposal, or the scope of work. And at same time not being able to say, oh, well, don’t worry, the brands will just pay us more money to cover from what you’re doing. It makes it much harder.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (28:54):
Yeah. I agree. This is all the reasons why I’m [crosstalk 00:28:57].

Stacy Jones (28:57):
You’re so happy.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (28:59):
Maybe after it all settles down and another two or three years I’ll be get back in the CEO gig. So it is not an easy time to be a leader of a business or a team these days. And I think [crosstalk 00:29:13].

Stacy Jones (29:13):
Do you think we were on this path anyways and COVID just sped it up, like they sped up so many other things, or do you think COVID itself shifted all of us?

Kristrr Ungerboeck (29:22):
I think COVID shifted, because I think that it’s, I think people, well, one, I think obviously the work from home thing was a lot of company leaders at the very hot top started to realize, well, we have to do it. So now that just opened the flood gates, I think for, I say Zoom, in one of the parts of the book, I say Zoom broke down the walls between our personal and professional lives. So now we have these tools that opened up the floodgates of, we were able to stem, we were in a tech company and we were able to stem the tide of work from home for many years. We were fortunate we had won five top workplace awards and we had 99.3% employee engagement.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (30:08):
So we did have an amazing culture that caused people to want to stay and, but now it’s like, well even now, my company, I’m still an owner that every is working from home. And so you’ve got that side, but then it’s like everybody’s there with their kids. And then there’s this emotion of like people losing people and all the things on the news. And so I think there was this just great questioning of what really is important to me? So in that regard, I don’t think that, my sense is I don’t think that it would have changed in the US if… Because the rest of the world is already that way except for maybe China and Hong Kong and India, maybe to some degree. Well, actually I say India probably was a pretty hard driving work culture as well. But if you go to Australia, or the UK, or any other developed country outside of, I don’t think there’s anywhere near the aggressive work culture that existed in the United States two years ago. And for the hundreds of years before.

Stacy Jones (31:11):
And I still think there’s a good work culture, it’s just different. Now we’re finding ourselves with a lot of hustlers as employees, that they want their side gig, they want to develop their own thing of whatever it might be on Etsy or this or that. And so it’s a split time of attention.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (31:30):
Well, I think that I think will probably come to an end. The reality is, is to build a business like a side hustle, ultimately it’s mostly an online market business, like how do you get the people buy your Etsy shop? And we’re doing one of the things that’s really unique from marketing side is we’re basically marketing this book almost exclusively with Facebook ads and like the, that was this executive from the large Fortune 500 company, he’s got a side gig. He’s like, I’m going to sell some supplements online. I said, well, do you have an extra quarter of a million dollars sitting around because it’s probably going to cost you that much to actually find out how to actually make money selling with Facebook ads or YouTube ads or whatever? So, I think that there’s this initial, oh, I’m going to start my Etsy shop, or I’m going to write my book, or I’m going to do whatever. And then when it’s done and the crickets start, the deafening of crickets, and when you got, maybe you got to turn the crickets into the clickets.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (32:32):
And that costs a lot of money, approximately $25 per… If you’re doing it really well. Yeah. So I think that a lot of that side gig, online business side gig is probably going to go away as, and people are going to have some very painful, expensive mistakes. The one challenge is the people who are going to make it are the best people.

Stacy Jones (32:58):

Kristrr Ungerboeck (32:58):
So the other ones who are doing it as a side hustle, as a maybe more vision and less delivery are the ones that are going to come back around.

Stacy Jones (33:09):
Which probably talks about their general, who they are at the office anyways.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (33:15):

Stacy Jones (33:16):
Yeah. So how can our listeners learn and find out more about you?

Kristrr Ungerboeck (33:23):
So for keynote speaking and things I do, I can go to kristrr.com. So Kristrr with a K that’s my first name. And then the book is available, of course, on Amazon. We also have a lot of, we give the book away, part of our mission is we’re giving away a hundred percent of profits. Once I sold my company, our mission is to change the words of the world. So a hundred percent of the profits from everything we do around the book is going to causes that help us to change the words of the world, both at work and within families.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (33:50):
And so if you want to help support the effort, rather than Jeff Bezos’s growing a fortune on Amazon, you can go to Talkshift.com and you can get the book there. We also have audiobook and there’s a video book format that you can actually watch on your smart TV with your family. And if you want to use the book in a professional context, the video book allows you to share any chapter individually with anyone even anonymously. So if your boss is a micromanager, you can share chapter nine with them anonymously and maybe things will start to shift.

Stacy Jones (34:26):
That’s awesome. I will say I am absolutely inspired and will be purchasing your book, because there is so many things that you’ve touched on that I know impact our agency and me as a leader. And leaders can always improve. That’s why we’re here. We are trying to improve our businesses. We’re typically trying to improve ourselves. Don’t just always know and have the guidelines and the guardrails of how to do it. And it seems that you have really dialed in through your own trials and tribulations and experiences into helping others figure that out.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (34:59):
Yeah. Well, next year in 2022, we are going to start coaching programs for leaders, our intention, again, is to do it much more affordably with where we do group coaching so that people can learn from one another, but really working through real situations. And again, all the profits go to change the words of the world. So, that’s [crosstalk 00:35:22].

Stacy Jones (35:21):
Any last more of parting advice to all those listening going, I wish my leadership knew this, or I wish I, as a leader knew this?

Kristrr Ungerboeck (35:31):
I think it’s just, you don’t need to change people, when we’re frustrated with someone at work or at home, we often start with, we need to change that person. And so it ultimately, it’s like a lot of manipulation and what I found and why I wrote the book is I realized that you don’t need to change people. You simply need to change your words and the people will follow.

Stacy Jones (35:58):
Okay. Well, that is a lovely note to end on. So Kristrr, thank you so much for joining us today. I greatly appreciate your time and your thoughts and your insights.

Kristrr Ungerboeck (36:07):
Thank you very much for the invitation. I appreciate it, Stacy.

Stacy Jones (36:10):
Of course, and to all of our listeners, thank you for tuning in to another episode of Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them). And as always, if you are ever interested in figuring out how third parties can help you paint a picture of your brand, not change them, reach out to our agency at Hollywood branded so that we can chat about product placement and influencer marketing, celebrity endorsements, and all those ways you can leverage others to help carry your miss far beyond. Have a great one.

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Marketing Mistakes and How To Avoid Them Reviews 

Must-Listen For Every Brand Marketer (And Owner)

This should be required listening for everyone who owns a business, works in marketing, or is interested in the business of entertainment. Great stuff!

The Best Marketing Podcast Ever!

Stacy is a brilliant branding strategist and she really knows how to bring out the best in her guests! This show is fun AND educational! If you’re looking to understand the world of marketing, branding, digital marketing, influencer marketing and more, look no further. This show has awesome insight into some of the greatest marketing minds out there today, and they provide practical advice you can use in your business today. #FanForLife

Awesome podcast for all marketers!

Keep them coming

Practical and pointed advice.

Stacy does a really great job making this a highly actionable podcast for business owners. With a focus on marketing, she covers a wide range of related topics as well and is always very specific with her questions so that the listener gets pointed advice instead of vague concepts to take away. It’s also really helpful to the hear the why behind any marketing tactic so that we can decide if something sounds like a good fit for where we are at in this moment.

Love this marketing podcast!

Lori has a way of finding new insights to share every week. I loved being a guest, but I enjoy hearing her many fascinating conversations with other marketers even more. Great show!

I love Stacey Jones!

I absolutely loved being on this podcast! Stacey is amazing – real, down to earth, and genuinely curious and interested in learning – this makes for a very engaging conversation and valuable podcast!

Thank you for your podcast! I LOVE IT

I just listened to the episode named Insights To Product Placement Brand Marketers Need To Know, and I really enjoyed every minute of it! There are so many ways to approach product placement in a manner that provides wins for many – and it is not always driven by money. I am looking forward to listening to more!

Stuff we need to know!!

Anyone who is in business should be listening to this podcast! Incredible insights and advice.

Such a wealth of knowledge! 🧠

This is one of the most insightful podcasts that I have ever come across! Stacy does such a great job of sharing her wisdom and I love how she leads meaningful conversations with guests who bring so much experience to the table. Highly recommend checking this show out – you won’t be disappointed!

Awesome Podcast!!!

Stacy, host of the Marketing Mistakes (And How To Avoid Them) Podcast, highlights all marketing and more in this can’t miss podcast! The host and expert guests offer insightful advice and information that is helpful to anyone that listens!
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