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Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How To Avoid Them. I’m Stacy Jones, the founder of influencer marketing and brand and content agency, Hollywood Branded. This podcast provides brand marketers a learning platform for top experts to share their insights and knowledge on topics which make a direct impact on your business today.While it is impossible to be well-versed on every topic and strategy that can improve bottom line results, my goal is to help you avoid making costly mistakes of time, energy or money, whether you’re doing a DIY approach or hiring an expert to help. Let’s begin today’s discussion.Speaker 2: 00:31
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. Here’s your host, Stacy Jones.Stacy Jones: 00:36
Welcome to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. I’m Stacy Jones. I’m so happy to be here with you all today, and I want to give a very warm welcome to Michael Greenberg, the founder of both Gentleman of Technology, a growth consulting firm, and Call for Content, a full-service podcasting agency for content marketing, audience growth and monetization strategies.Today, we’re going to talk about authority marketing, discussing why you need it, how to implement it and the common misconceptions most people have about it, and here’s a hint, folks, about what to expect. Hot casting is one part of that topic. We’ll learn what has worked for Michael’s experience, what maybe could be avoided, and where people are missing the mark.
Michael G.: 01:12
Stacy, it’s great to be on today.
Stacy Jones: 01:14
I am super thrilled and happy to have you here. I love chatting about podcasting by the way because I like this. I like podcasting a lot. I never knew I would like podcasting this much, but I… It’s something I look forward to when I do, but can we start off talking a little bit about your background and what got you to where you are today?
Michael G.: 01:33
Yeah. I guess it’s a standard story from the startup world, but it’s an odd story everywhere else. I dropped out of school when I was 20, went to a coding bootcamp. I started working for a startup based originally in San Francisco and then moved with them down south, actually, to South Carolina and then over to Chattanooga, Tennessee, and while I was this… with them, I came on building out products and then found that I really love the sales and marketing part more, and operations, and so, when I left the company, I started consulting. That’s when I founded Gentleman of Technology. That’s when I started doing growth strategy consulting and, out of that, I was working with, primarily, startups or other small SaaS businesses, that’s software as a service, as well as professional services, primarily, digital marketing agencies of various sorts.
What ended up happening was I kept seeing the same things, and I saw that agencies had really steady revenue and, if you built them the way I thought was the right way from the start, then you could build something that didn’t take a lot of time to manage, scaled really well and gave that consistent revenue, and so that I founded Call for Content, which started as a B2B content marketing agency.
Call for Content, that was about two years ago when we started, and then about nine months ago, we launched the white label podcasting, and after seeing the reception from that offering, we decided to go all in on podcasting, took our B2B content marketing strategies and said, “Okay, we’re only using the ones that include podcasts now,” and so that is the authority marketing that we offer today, and then we also offer that white label podcasting services, and we’re getting out to roll… We’re getting ready to roll out a whole new set of offerings specifically for podcasters for marketing and monetization.
Stacy Jones: 03:53
Awesome. That is quite a journey to today.
Michael G.: 03:57
Stacy Jones: 03:57
Very cool, so, obviously, you love podcasting as much as I love podcasting, but would you share why you think it’s such an awesome tool?
Michael G.: 04:08
I’ll make the economic case first, because that’s the boring one nobody ever makes. On a per-word basis, podcasts, starting with a podcast and then turning it into other kinds of content is the cheapest way to go about it from a cost perspective. Beyond that, you get to meet amazing people who also have podcasts all over the world, and the content you create with podcasts I think is deeper than other forms of content, and the conversations that you have are different enough from anything else that you’d find on, say, a blog, that the people who love podcasts really love them, and that shows in the numbers when you look at who listens to podcasts.
The average person listens to seven, if they listen to podcasts, and so that’s three and a half, four hours of content. If they’re listening to long shows, it could be up to seven or 10 hours, maybe even more, and so when I see that, I know that a podcast listener is dedicated to the brand that owns that podcast, and so, from a marketing perspective, that’s pretty much the best thing I can ask for.
Stacy Jones: 05:40
That is awesome, and that means that those three to seven hours that people are now listening to podcasts, they’re not doing other things like watching TV, listening to radio, doing many other things that they used to do where they get advertising in front of them, too.
Michael G.: 05:57
Exactly, and you generally can find out when you look at your audience when they’re listening. A lot of the shows that I produce with Call for Content are drive-time shows, so we know, okay, most of our listeners are going to be commuting. The average commute is that 25, 30-minute mark, so we want our shows to fit right in that slot, but if, for example, you’re creating a fitness podcast that might be for people who are on their run or working out, you might be really looking for an hour or for a 15-minute that they can listen to for a segment of it before they get into their music. I really like figuring that out because, once you know how people listen, or at least how the people that you want to be listening listen, then you’re really able to dig in and create content for that time period.
Stacy Jones: 07:10
That makes sense, and I may have derailed you at the very beginning because I jumped straight into podcasting. Do you want to talk a little bit about authority marketing as a whole and what it means?
Michael G.: 07:24
Authority marketing as we look at it at Call for Content is a content marketing strategy designed for high ticket B2B lead gen primarily for expert-run businesses. I use that term instead of professional services because you really need to know what you’re talking about for authority marketing to work. It’s not one of those strategies where you’re going to put up this thousand-word blog post every week following this list of keywords and you’re going to see traffic. That’s not what this is.
Authority marketing is about positioning with content and using that to assist in sales and lead generation efforts, but the first part is in positioning, and we use podcasts to do it. We start the client with a podcast and use that podcast to gather some of the case studies from past clients they’ve worked with. We use that podcast to introduce them to some new partners and we use that podcast to get in front of high priority leads, high value leads.
Stacy Jones: 08:46
Because that’s the secret weapon, being able to actually open the door and have a genuine conversation with someone who is a targeted, potential customer, and they get the warm and fuzzies, and they get to know you, and you get to know them, and you’re building trust.
Michael G.: 09:01
Exactly. We actually have an entire playbook on that on the website called the B2B Podcast Playbook, the number one way we use podcasts for lead generation, because if I can put you in front of 50 prospective leads and you are the expert in that expert-run business, some of them are going to want to work with you, and so authority marketing is all about making those situations happen, building those relationships out for the current and the future.
Stacy Jones: 09:41
Are there other ways besides podcasting? Again, I love podcasting, and even with us, we take our podcasts and then, with our guests, we turn them into transcripts, and if I do a solo podcast, I turn that into a transcript, and then we have a blog on that, and then we can cut social media pieces and we can chunk up all our videos and… There’s a big life to all of this that you can do. What made you all decide to start with podcasting? Just because it’s simpler or easier or, as you went back from the very beginning, is the most economical?
Michael G.: 10:18
A little bit of everything. Hiring and working with ghostwriters is hard. I don’t want to put my clients through that. I don’t want to have to deal with that personally because, if you are an agency creating content for somebody in their voice, there’s a lot of clients who are going to get angry about it not being right, because it’s never going to be perfect if they’re not writing it.
Stacy Jones: 10:48
That’s hard even having your own team and an agency running content, and the agencies always sometimes.
Michael G.: 10:54
Yeah. Yeah. That’s something I’ve almost given up on.
Stacy Jones: 11:01
Michael G.: 11:01
All the content we create starts with interviews, and we were doing subject matter expert interviews to create content and using almost the exact words, so why don’t we just shift the positioning of the conversation of it and you have a podcast?
Stacy Jones: 11:20
Right, and then you can cut it up.
Michael G.: 11:22
Exactly, and so we plan ahead. I like to call it a tent pole content where you plan the different stripes of the tent first around the different kinds of content you’re producing, so, for us, that’s going to be the podcast, and maybe if the client is producing other content themselves, that as well, and then we’re going to use… We’re going to plan before we start the first episode. We’re going to plan an E-book or a book or an audio course or some other larger piece of content that we’re building up to, and so we then plan out our interviews and our topics for the shows and any other content around that, so, that way, we’re testing all the individual concepts of the big piece with these little pieces as we go along and then, when the time comes, we put out the big piece and we generally back that larger piece with ads.
We have a nice audience already from the prior pieces and we’ve got our retargeting pixel, so then we’re able to know that these people have some interest in these topics already and bring them back for that larger download. We generally make playbooks or other sort of educational materials, and we try to make them pretty big. I like to say that, if you go through one of them, you shouldn’t have to ask how or why when you’re done, and that’s worked well for us because, really, it shows that you know what you’re talking about, and a lot of times, that first big piece we put out is exactly what our client does, because most people are still going to want to hire the expert to do it.
Stacy Jones: 13:29
Because it’s nice to know how to do it, and it’s nice to have the transparency to understand how to do it, but all of us have only the same 24 hours in a day, and it depends on where your passion is and where you want to spend those 24 hours.
Michael G.: 13:42
Exactly, and the reason I use expert is also expertise. You cannot discount 10 years of marketing strategy. You can’t discount any of that sort of thing, and it’s that extra internal knowledge that I feel like people should really pay for, not the process necessarily, though, in some businesses, the process is the secret sauce.
Stacy Jones: 14:12
It’s a value proposition, right? That’s what you’re looking at. It’s the value that you’re receiving from the expertise. It’s going to be able to get you somewhere faster than where you’re going to be able to teach yourself directly. Hopefully, you’ve done more mistakes than your client has done, and you’ve learned from your mistakes so you’ll never repeat those mistakes, and your client is going to otherwise do all of those mistakes themselves if they do this process themselves.
Michael G.: 14:39
Yeah, that’s better put than I think I could.
Stacy Jones: 14:43
Now, at Hollywood Branded, my agency, it’s the same way. We do a lot with teaching. I have endless how-to blogs, how-to podcasts because it’s really important to me that people understand what this whole magical, mystical marketing of celebrities and TV shows and feature films is and how to do it, but when it comes down to it, anyone could do it if they take the time and they learn. The question is are they going to take the time? Are they going to learn, and are they going to make the thousands of mistakes I have made in my 23 years of doing this? I hope not, and I can prevent them from doing it, right? That’s the whole point.
Michael G.: 15:23
Stacy Jones: 15:23
Yeah, so you had said something to me a minute ago that’s interesting. You were talking about a retargeting pixel. I’m like, “Retargeting pixel?” What are you using the retargeting pixel for when you are working with your podcasts and looking for your audience? How are you doing that?
Michael G.: 15:38
Yes, so that’s some new stuff. That’s recently been coming out. You’re getting your pixels through attribution. It all comes out of we need to be able to measure podcast ads, and so, from that, you’ve got companies like Podsights. It’s my preferred vendor now, and I believe Megaphone and other enterprise systems have them as well, have this attribution built in. As soon as you have attribution, you have the opportunity to re-target. Those go hand in hand, but we also push most of our traffic through the Web, and so I’m not generally pushing you straight to subscribe to my podcast, I’m pushing you to subscribe to my newsletter to learn about the podcast and associated events and other content.
The reason I do that is because then I have a much more valuable measurement. Once I have an email, I know exactly who you are and, if I know who you are, then I have a better idea of the real value and the real use in my audience, and so a large part of what we do is pushing traffic through Web at some point for retargeting, though now we’re starting to get this attribution, and so we’re able to do more of it actually through the podcast platforms.
Stacy Jones: 17:08
Interesting, and then are you using Libsyn or are you using other platforms? What are you using?
Michael G.: 17:17
Podsights is a third-party analytic.
Stacy Jones: 17:20
Okay, the analytics are Megaphone and Podsights.
Michael G.: 17:22
Stacy Jones: 17:23
Michael G.: 17:23
Yeah, so Podsights is what you would use for that sort of thing, though Megaphone also I believe has one. I personally use Omny Studio because it’s got everything you could need in one.
Stacy Jones: 17:39
This is a whole area that I have no familiarity with whatsoever, and I’m so excited to be hearing a little bit more about it.
Michael G.: 17:46
It’s an exploding area, too. You’ve got all sorts of new companies coming out with various options for podcast hosting and monetization [inaudible 00:18:00].
Stacy Jones: 18:00
When you’re working with clients and you’re helping them create a podcast, that’s the ground… That’s ground zero, right? That’s what you’re starting with ultimately before you’re building all the other ways that you can have and build authority from that.
Michael G.: 18:14
We actually start with research, so you’re not going to make it to working with us if you haven’t either spoken with your customers and done real customer research and audience research, or you’re going to pay us to do that as our first engagement, as our first month, whatever the structure is, and that’s because most people don’t really know that well who they’re trying to target, and so, first, we find that out. Then we’re going to say, “Okay, will a podcast work for this audience?” and that yes-no is going to determine the way in which we use the podcast going forward.
Stacy Jones: 19:02
Okay, and so you have figured out the audience. You have figured out that you’re going to move forward with the podcast, and for the sake of …
Michael G.: 19:02
It’s always useful…
Stacy Jones: 19:12
… this conversation-
Michael G.: 19:12
… for the podcast.
Stacy Jones: 19:13
For the sake of this conversation, we’re definitely working together. You’re telling them what’s happening, and then you’re building the topics and the content from that, and then you’re trying to decide if the podcast is going to be a solo conversation or whether they’re having guests, which is the opening the door and bringing in potential clients and building even more authority and getting third parties to actually help you promote your podcast so that it can grow faster.
Michael G.: 19:38
Yeah. Yeah. We’re going to go for all of that, though one of the big things that we know, for example, if nobody… If the audience is 50-plus-year-old executives, they’re not going to listen to a podcast, so we’re not going to do a solo show because then we know, if most of the audience will not be listening, the best focus is to be outwards with the podcast on those partnerships and the lead gen or interviewing subject matter experts and having those conversations to create more in-depth sections that might be outside of our client’s core competency, so borrowing some of their authority by bringing in those other people.
Stacy Jones: 20:31
When you just said that if someone is a 50-plus-year-old executive, you’re not… They’re not your core targeted podcast because podcasts tend to trend a little younger.
Michael G.: 20:40
Yeah, they tend to trend millennial. Gen Xer is really your magic.
Stacy Jones: 20:45
Okay, and then so the podcasts are still the magic sauce because you’re creating content that is readable potentially for that 50-plus demo who still likes reading things.
Michael G.: 20:57
Exactly, and we’re going to know from the start that this content is almost entirely going to be consumed in a readable format.
Stacy Jones: 21:06
Okay. That is good to know, and then inviting guests, figuring out who you’re doing outreach for, how you’re doing outreach for them. How do you go about that? I know how I go about that, but it may definitely not be the right way.
Michael G.: 21:21
Yeah. We’re lucky that we do this a good amount, so I’ve got a big list of our expert guests for, if we need somebody with something specific, maybe we’ve already found somebody before, and we can bring him back.
Stacy Jones: 21:39
Michael G.: 21:41
That’s number one because it’s always better to have to reach out to know on, except somebody you already know.
Stacy Jones: 21:48
Yeah. That’s a very warm, welcome way of getting someone on your podcast or getting booked on someone else’s podcast.
Michael G.: 21:55
Exactly, and we use it for both. Then, after that, we’re likely to go to LinkedIn first and find the person we’re looking for. Depending on the kind of person and if they’re active on LinkedIn or other social media, we’ll determine whether or not social media or email is the best way to reach out first, and then we just go about inviting them on. Most people want to get exposure, and we very rarely have nos. Some of the shows I work on have much higher profile guests, and in those cases, it’s normally friends or current network of the client, and so in those cases, it’s really easy because then we’re just scheduling.
Stacy Jones: 22:50
That makes sense as well. I know that world well.
Michael G.: 22:53 Yeah. Those are honestly the most fun to work on with from the production side, though I think you get more interesting guests on some of the weirder shows.
Stacy Jones: 23:07
Yeah. I think, a camaraderie that you have, sometimes that makes it easy when you have two people who know each other and they’re able to… They know their work or they know experiences and they’ve shared something or other so they already have that instant connection, when other times it can be a little harder on occasion to connect and have that and have that go through to your listeners.
Michael G.: 23:28
Definitely, though I think the best solution I found so far is if somebody’s having, for example, a weekly show and they’re having mostly guests who they don’t know on, we’ll try to schedule like a 15-minute call between and the guest a couple of weeks in advance so they’ve got at least a little rapport built.
Stacy Jones: 23:56
Just warm them up a little bit, bring in the comfort zone.
Michael G.: 23:59
Stacy Jones: 24:01
That makes sense, and then, okay, you’ve done the podcast. You’ve created it for them. Your client is like, “Whoo-hoo, I was on the podcast. I did it. I love my podcast. The guest was great.” You all are doing full editing. You’re taking care of that turn-key.
Michael G.: 24:16
Stacy Jones: 24:19
Then you’re advertising, and I’m assuming, too, in some way through social or you’re letting people know about it. We talked about Podsights and MegaPhone, but that is a core component of making sure the podcast is successful.
Michael G.: 24:34
Yeah. We generally focus on two channels for promoting a show, paid and podcast placements, actually placing the host of the show on other podcasts…
Stacy Jones: 24:50
To talk about…
Michael G.: 24:51
… because we-
Stacy Jones: 24:52
… the fact that they have a podcast.
Michael G.: 24:53
Exactly, because there’s no better way to find podcast listeners than having them listen to you on a podcast.
Stacy Jones: 25:05
As simple as it sounds, it’s genius.
Michael G.: 25:08
Stacy Jones: 25:08
Yeah. You’re welcome.
Michael G.: 25:09
Yeah, it really is. Appearing on podcasts is great without having one, but having one to bring your audience to is even better, and then, on the paid side, it really depends on budget and on audience whether or not we’re going to use paid or what formats of paid we use. Outside of that, if paid doesn’t work, then we’ll fall back to other partnerships or do some outreach to influencers around the episodes, but that’s not something we specialize in, and so that’s something that we generally have to work with a third party on if it’s not right in our wheelhouse of client base.
Stacy Jones: 25:57
Okay, so you’re advertising. You’re driving traffic. You’re getting awareness of the podcast. What should someone expect? When do they know their podcast is a success? They start off and, day one, you have zero listeners. We do brand integration. We do partnerships where we place brands into content, and when we started first getting involved in placing brands as part of the storylines, subjects, conversations inside podcasts, one of the biggest issues, and still to this day, of talking with a client is based on how many people are actually listening to that podcast, because it’s not like a TV show where there’s millions of people typically, I mean, that’s some podcasts, if there is.
Michael G.: 26:40
Yeah, you’re making a lot of money if you have a million plus.
Stacy Jones: 26:42
Right? That’s craziness actually in this world, but you don’t want five people either, so how do you engage with your clients and help them measure and see what is success and how they’re growing for it to be successful?
Michael G.: 26:55
Since we work with mostly clients in B2B and we work… and we’re starting to expand B2C, but even there, they’re still at the higher end, so they’re selling pretty high ticket items still. Normally, it’s like a life coach or something who’s selling 500 or a $1,000-a-month coaching services or more, a lot of them quite a bit more.
Stacy Jones: 27:24
It’s amazing, right? Every time I talk to a life coach, I’m like, “I should be a life coach. You make a lot of money.”
Michael G.: 27:30
Yeah, we work with a lot of coaches. In life, an executive in business and then life coaches for entrepreneurs is a whole niche in itself that we’ve worked extensively with, but when we’re looking at a show with somebody like that, the first thing I ask is how many people have you given a speech to? How many people have you gotten in a room to listen to you talk for a half hour even? Some of them have done some keynotes. Maybe they’re at thousands, but most people I talk with are 50 or 150, maybe 300 at most.
Stacy Jones: 28:19
Michael G.: 28:21
Yeah, or five. Some of them have done none of that, and so that’s the first measurement we look to is do we have more consistent listeners on for the podcast than we’ve ever gotten with speaking engagements, because that’s our first comparison point. After that, then we start looking at versus other podcasts, so are we going to break into the top 20%? Normally, the first, we look at the 500 mark, the 1,000 mark, and then 2,000, and after two, 10 is our next breakpoint, and we don’t look at those smaller numbers for the B2C shows, so, if we’re selling to a larger consumer base, we’re only looking for 2,000 plus. It’s been a learning experience to figure out where these numbers are, but it turns out they align pretty well with what a lot of the basic sponsorship deals we see out there.
Stacy Jones: 29:35
You just touched onto sponsorship, the magic, the dollars. You can make money from podcasting. Can you? Is that something that really people do well at?
Michael G.: 29:46
Well is maybe an overstatement. You can make money. You can maybe pay for your show with sponsorship, but you’re going to need either a very large audience or a very high value one to negotiate a sponsorship that is really of note. We do sponsorships on a commission-only basis for clients that want it, and, generally, if they have an email list, we get a much better number because, when we can point back and say, hey, you’re looking to market to CEOs of companies between 50 and 200 employees, we’ve got 30 of them on this list who listen every week, that’s an audience we can sell to somebody at a high value.
Stacy Jones: 30:44
The proof is eating the pudding, right? If you don’t know who your listeners are, it makes it a lot harder.
Michael G.: 30:48
Exactly, and, really, 500 for B2B, we start looking… 2,000 is where you start seeing good deal. Two, we’ll start working the client in B2C, but 10 is really where we want them to be for any sort of aggressive sponsorship or advertising. Most of the monetization is through products or services associated with the show. That’s where we see the best numbers.
Stacy Jones: 31:20
That makes sense, and then is there anything that people need to think about and know in regards to sponsors? Obviously, the amount of money that you could potentially bring in is definitely relative to your audience, but is it $20 or is it 20,000?
Michael G.: 31:39
Obviously, that comes back to your audience again, B2B getting that 10,000. If you’ve got those 30 CEOs listening to your show every week, then you’ve actually got a shot at the five, $10,000 sponsorships, but if you’ve got 500 anonymous listeners on a show about just B2B work, that’s probably not going to be very attractive.
Stacy Jones: 32:09
It’s not very enticing.
Michael G.: 32:09
Exactly. The CPM that I saw kicked around last year most of the time was 43 as the number for sponsorship. Generally, we see numbers higher than that, but we exclusively work direct deals, so we will middleman, but we’re never going to a network or an ad network, I’ll just specify…
Stacy Jones: 32:42
You might work with-
Michael G.: 32:42
… because as soon as you go there, you’re done. We’re not selling to big advertisers either, because larger brands are measuring podcasts on CPM, and that doesn’t work for the kind of sponsorships we try to sell because we get better numbers when they aren’t.
Stacy Jones: 33:00
Right. It’s hard. I mean, really, listeners, I mean, you guys think that there are thousands and thousands and thousands of people who listen to every podcast. It’s pretty rare. It really is.
Michael G.: 33:16
Maybe 10, 20% of the shows we work with break a 1,000 downloads an episode, to be clear. We expect them to break a 1,000 downloads sooner than later.
Stacy Jones: 33:28
Right, you’re going to hit 1,000. It’s just how many episodes is it going to take?
Michael G.: 33:31
Stacy Jones: 33:32
Right. Okay, very good. What else do our listeners need to know about authority marketing and how to make it work for them?
Michael G.: 33:39
You want to be as specific as possible, and the way I like to talk about this is a floodlight versus a laser. If you’re a digital marketing agency, that’s a floodlight. That’s a very broad positioning. If you’re a digital marketing agency, let’s say you’re an entertainment focused digital marketing agency, now you’re getting a spotlight. You’re starting to focus in, but if you’re an entertainment marketing agency who specializes in influencer partnerships and branded content-
Stacy Jones: 34:23
Michael G.: 34:24
Stacy Jones: 34:25
Michael G.: 34:26
Then, you’ve got a laser. People know exactly what you do. They know exactly what to work with you for. I was thinking about this in terms of building agencies the other day for a piece of content I’m working on, and I realized that agencies, and I’m guessing this will hold true for all the other kinds of businesses I look at, gain traction faster when they have that laser positioning in particular for marketing because then it’s easier to get into the budget and, once you’re in, you can expand, but you’ve got to get into those budgets of clients first and having that fit.
Having the laser means you have a narrow market, too, and a narrow market means you can speak to them easier, but for authority marketing, that’s so important because the wider net you cast, the closer to a floodlight you are than a laser. The more content, the longer it takes, the slower everything goes when it comes to authority because it’s really a pretty quick process to become an authority as, for example, a podcaster and in podcast marketing, but if I wanted to become an authority in digital marketing or even just content marketing, that would take me another four or five years, maybe longer, of just building up that base, and so the narrow… The more narrow you start, the easier it is to build authority, and the faster you see results.
Stacy Jones: 36:10
That all makes perfect sense as well. If our listeners want to learn more about you, how can they do so? Where do they go?
Michael G.: 36:21
You can find me on social media, @gentoftec, G-E-N-T-O-F-T-E-C-H, and then, if you want to actually speak with me or if you want to learn more about authority marketing or the podcasting work that we do, go to callforcontent.com. That’s C-A-L-L-F-O-R-C-O-N-T-E-N-T, and if you go up into the bottom-right corner, there’ll be a little chat widget, and it’ll ask you if you want to schedule office hours, and just say yes, and then we can chat. Office hours are my time to talk with my audience and answer questions and get great idea for new content, so it really works out in everyone’s favor.
Stacy Jones: 37:14
That is great. Michael, we really enjoyed having you on here today, and I know our listeners have gotten so much value from this. I’ve gotten so much value from this, so thank you. Really enjoyed your time, and, to all our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in to Marketing Mistakes and How to Avoid Them. I will chat with you on our next podcast.
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